Pathfinder RPG

[Star Drifter]

I wasn't aware there was some cosmic law that that was how those creatures had to be. And I don't think that without these resistances that they become weak and pushover. There are other ways to make them dangerous - which may even make them more interesting opponents. Credit the designers with some intelligence, eh?

 

Ishil

Okay, I'll try to step in and explain the other side of this matter as I see it.

 

I'm sure that given the modular thinking D&D has been adapting over the past 10 years, it will not be hard to add those features. Then, by the rule, the DM would need to increase the difficulty/challenge/brutality rating or whatever may replace it in 4E.

 

On the other hand, I do believe it's an example of the designers becoming apparently blind to the importance we gamers have placed on some issues. Trolls regenerate. This is a part of our culture as gamers. Pickled trolls, trolls on fire, troll wine, troll bits going into a bag of holding to come out as whole trolls the next time a player needs his bedroll -- this could go into Forrest Gump proportions.

 

Look at the gamer culture. Knights of the Dinner Table. Dork Towers. Real Men, Real Roleplayers, Loonies & Munchkins.

 

I have no doubt that the rules will exist to give these thing back to the groups who want them. It's a matter of the culture, and the game we love(d). Hardcore gamers don't always hate that a brand new character can teleport and perform massive damage from a brand new sheet - the Hero system is proof enough of that.

 

Wizards is shaking things up and doing so in a big way. Part of this is going to make things we gamers value a thing of the past -- a relic of the scene. There is going to be some dissent. Manufacturers such as Paizo and Kenzer & Co. are seeing this dissent and filling the void.

 

All I wish to say is that this goes beyond game mechanic when, out of the box, the very name synonymous with fantasy role-playing discontinues so many beloved game elements.

[VelveteenRabbit]

I'll play it and pass judgment then. My major concern right now is that it pushes the game even further from allowing any real role-playing to happen. If I'm just playing a table top miniature game I don't want to have to come up with a character name...

[haldir]

but hey WOTC gives you the option to play lizard-folk creatures with boobies!!!!

 

I have the 4.0 Player's Guide on order at my local card shop, but I think that is all I'll ever buy of 4.0, give me Pathfinder products instead.

 

RM

[spiritual_exorcist]

I'm truthfully undecided, I really don't RPG, but wizards will get my money for the core books, and then I'll decide whether I like what they've done, after I've read the rules.

 

Gnomes can be a fun race, I'll admit, but they are hardly of utter importance in my mind.

 

Gnomes will be detailed in their own right in a supplement at some point, even if it is just so WoTC can make a little more money, and if I was a betting man I'd suggest that such a supplement would come sooner rather than later.

 

We'll see, I'm not going to pass judgment yet, there are things I've seen I really like, and things I don't I can always use what I want and discard the rest. The books will be worth the money invested for me simply for the time I will spend looking through them.

 

That being said, this is about Pathfinder, not 4.0, and Pathfinder looks nifty in its own right.

[EntilZha]

I might switch to this. I am disappointed with Wizard in making the gnome, a very important creature in fantasy, a monster in 4e and making a tiefling a player race!!!

 

I agree. Wizards is basically saying, "We can't have gnomes, but let's throw in all sorts of extraplanars as core PC races."

 

Idiots.

 

Idiots? That's putting it very politely. I mean I know they're pushing the worst fantasy setting ever at the moment but why do they want to force everyone to play "HalfThings" with loads of innate manga powers all the time to spoil people's games? You can have fun without wizards being able to cast spells at will and fighters getting silly "epic nonsense" at 6th level.

 

I hear they're getting rid of all the damage reduction/energy resistance stuff (and making undead & constructs vulnerable to sneak atatcks and stuff) so players won't ever complain about not being able to do anything in certain situations (thus making the concept of a party of specialists who's talents compliment each others' become even more redundant).

They're forcing people to play "HalfThings" are they? They're writing in the book "You must play this race" or getting rid of humans, elves and dwarves as PCs are they? Because it sounds like you're the one who wants to tell people how they should play the game. Some people play characters with cool looks or abilities just because they like them, not because Wizards is telling them to.

 

Ishil

 

If you had the choice to play a human, elf, dwarf, or halfling, or an extraplanar entity with all kinds of cool powers, which would you chooose? 4.0 parties will, for the most part, be composed of nothing but the extraplanar core races.

[haldir]

I'd probably choose either dwarf or elf, as those are my favorite races to play, not because of the uber abilities they possess but I've always liked a bow firing elf character or a axe swinging dwarf. Mr Rouse & his clan of Wizards won't decide what race I'll play if I ever play 4.0 (which is more then unlikely at that).

[Chapien]

I downloaded the pathfinder PDF but I can't open it without a dumb error message. Anyone know why?

[Ishil]

If you had the choice to play a human, elf, dwarf, or halfling, or an extraplanar entity with all kinds of cool powers, which would you chooose? 4.0 parties will, for the most part, be composed of nothing but the extraplanar core races.

As I understand it, the regular PC races will get new abilities too, not 'kool powerz' but those appropriate to the class concept.

And, while I might well try an extraplanar race for my first 4E character, for the novelty, future characters would be just as likely to be human or other 'regular' races. After all, you could use books like Savage Species to create Mind Flayer or Troll PCs in 3e, but I never had any desire to do so.

 

Ishil

[spiritual_exorcist]

I'll second that I lack any desire to play extraplanar races in 4.0. I'm a pretty staple guy, I'm found of Humans, Dwarves, and the occasional Halfling. I'd be about as likely to play a Tiefling as I was to play a Gnome, which is not likely at all.

[haldir]

Chapien

 

what are you using to read the pdf?

 

Paizo pdfs don't like Foxit for some reason (lately the odd page number is blank in each pdf, text is there just its clear for some reason).

[Chapien]

I am using Adobe Reader. Works with all my other PDFs, but not this one. Says file cannot be found when I try to open it.

[EntilZha]

Pathfinder Alpha 2 is now ready, and includes rules for the Barbarian, Druid, Paladin, and Sorcerer. I really like the Sorcerer bloodlines and their abilities.

[Aegrist13]

I've seen this with every "new" edition of almost every game out there. Someone gets sooo angry that "their race" or "their class" got messed with or left out. If it bothers you that much just stick with the previous version of the game. I'm sure everyone has invested mass fortunes in the last version and other companies are still going to produce material for it so just play that and avoid the ulcers and sleepless nights.

[Star Drifter]

"Just using the old rules" gets harder to do as groups drift apart and new players/groups need to be found.

 

I'm sure I could still run my old D&D Basic set with interested players. Overall, it will be a lot easier (now) to crack open the 3.5 books and -- in a couple of years -- to find a group using the 4th edition rules.

 

I don't always hate new editions either. In fact, I had a deep rooted love for D&D 3.0, World of Darkness third edition (era) stuff (Changeling and Wraith were only getting their 2nd editions at the time), and Shadowrun 3rd. Those, to me, were perfect combinations of updates for new players and revisions to please the old crowd. I am eager to see what the new Hero/Champion system will look like as well.

 

D&D 3rd was the only of those systems to pull a huge rules revision. Yet, it combined a lot of loved elements from older editions (classes, kits/feat/skills) into one core rulebook.

[Balgin Stondraeg]

Until the finished Pathfinder RPG's release as a hardcover rulebook in August 2009, all of Paizo's popular Pathfinder-brand products will continue under the current 3.5 rules set.

 

I like the way they call it popular before it's even released. It can't be popular unless loads of people liked it and have bought it (and that part of the announcement just seems really arrogant to me). If they mean "only the popular ones" out of everything they do then that's fine but calling something the best thing since sliced bread before they're even handing it out to people ain't the smartest move they could've made.