Bloodstone Gnomes

[spiritual_exorcist]

I haven't seen the BSG model in action, but on paper the I'd have to say I'd be taking the Tunnel Knight every time over the Hok. As much as I love the way the Hok looks, and they are the model that make me want to play the BSG as a faction more than any other, I'm just not sure I could pass up the extra attack and higher DV of the Tunnel Knight.

 

I've seen a few versions of the Hok, and truthfully the RC08 beta version is the one I like least, I don't feel like it really lives up the the nasty look that the model has. Right now it seems like it is in competition with some of the other BSG models The Knight), the datacard doesn't stand out enough, nor does it feel like it reflects the look of the model itself in my mind. If ever there was a model that screamed 'tiny ball of fury' it seems like it is this one.

 

If you were going to change the model to make it step less on the Tunnel Knights toes, what would you do to it? Or do you think the model is effective enough that you would take it without giving much thought to the Tunnel Knight, maybe I'm making issue where one doesn't exist? (Still at 4 points more I can't but think that the tunnel Knight looks like a whole lot more model).

 

Making it move faster wouldn't be a terrible idea. Move 6 or Improved charge/4?

 

I'd like to see MAV 4 with Frenzy, (surely 4 MAV 2 attacks isn't all that scary?), possibly even dropping Warmaster to keep the model low cost.

 

Maybe Critical Strike/2 instead?

[Saint Vierzehn]

The whole bloody BSG list is still completely screwed up.

 

Reaper's point costing system breaks down at the low end of the scale when building 2 damage track models with lots of SA's, and the BSG list is loaded with models of that type.

 

-StV.

[Fruggs]

I think I might take some of both to see how they play and if the hok plays like he should, vicious. The hok does have smite good/2 which is can be pretty nasty.

 

If the playing turned him not worth it then I would want some changes. I like the idea of him moving fast though.

 

Right now he is a MAV4 with 4 MA's.

[Stubbdog]

Fruggs,

 

The version you are using is not the latest version. Most all of the gnomes got a serious overhall since that version.

 

Yes, this model more than any other has seen lots of changes during the beta testing. And I agree with you completely SE. I was lucky enough to see the artwork of the Hoks a long long time ago and I have been frothing at the mouth to get to field them. I was very excited when I got to help in the development of the BSGs. I have tried several different combinations. The main problem I keep running into is that almost no matter what combination I have put on the Hok I also would still take the tunnel knights if they are within a few points of each other. The only way for me to change that is to make them almost more powerful offensively than the knights.

 

At the moment Reaper Peeps say that the tunnel knight has to continue to be the heavy hitter adept for the BSGs lie other factions have their own main adepts. That could change in the future, but for now that is the case.

 

And also a part of what St. V is saying is also true. Now that we have seriously changed the make up of the healing capacities and the toughness of the gnomes, I disagree with Gus and St V as to the extent of the point cost issues that they do, but that is exactly what this time period for play testing is all about.

 

Personally, I was happy with the 4 attacks at mav 4. Or I wanted 2 attacks at mav 7. On both of those, it was said that a model with that kind of offensive ability for 30 or so points was just asking for freelancers to find a way to create broken lists whether or not they only had 2 damage tracks and die quickly. And until it was proven in beta testing that the removing of all the healing FAs and 60% of the tough scores from the gnomes was enough to balance their higher stats, they cannot see changing them.

 

The current 2 at 6 was the compromise. I don't like it, but it was the best compromise I could get.

 

Problem with adding things like charge4 or any other SA is that it closes the gap in points even more and you would still take the knights every time.

 

I really do need more people to playtest the new version of the gnomes and post ACTUAL GAMEPLAY feedback on them.

 

I understand St. Vs arguments. But, this list really needs playtest feedback and not just argumentative feedback. The change in FAs and the 60% reduction in tough should have a huge affect on the gnomes. And in this case, just talking about the theoreticals and stat comparing is not going to be enough to tell.

[spiritual_exorcist]

I think changes to the FA and Tough have largely removed the problems with the BSG, so that isn't an issue for me at all anymore.

 

I suppose with the Hok, at least the tunnel Knights are adepts, so when I field my second unit the Hoks will the obvious choice.

 

2 at 6 was disappointing for me to see as well, like I said I wanted to see them a true Frenzy model after they lost their #MA 4; #MA 2, MAV 4 + Frenzy would have been ideal for me. (I mean we have Frenzy on 3-track models in the Lupine faction now, 2 track doesn't bother me)

 

Another change that could have been made would have been to make the Hoks the only 3 track Soldier on the list, and this would have made them desirable (even if you dropped their DV and offensive abilities to compensate.

[Gus Landt]

I gotta say I really like the idea of the Hoks moving at 6. Would give them a bit of a pump to compete with the knights.

[spiritual_exorcist]

I think BSG might be next on my list of armies to own, becasue the models are pretty cool, for no other reason but that, and the coolest of them are the Hoks. I'll use them every time I field the army no matter what their datacard looks like, but there is a disparity between them and the tunnel Knights that make the tunnel knights the #1 combat choice in any situation.

 

Something like Move 6, Improved charge/4 would be super-cool even if it made them 32-34 points

[Stubbdog]

for me, base on the datacards : knights first, then guards, then pulgers, then hok

 

Based on looks its almost the exact opposite: Hok, then guards, then pulgers, then knights

 

I am REALLY hoping that there will be some playtesters out there that can give some good data that shows that it would be ok to raise the attack value of the Hok up (whether thru stat upgrades or SAs) and not break them.

 

The only reason I dont really think that simply increasing their move would help is that overall, the BSGs by design pretty much have to work together to survive. For the most part, if you separate them out they are too easy to squash being only 2 DTs. As a group, as long as you can keep them out of AOE spell harm way they can team up and create havoc.

[spiritual_exorcist]

My notion is that with Move 6 + Improved charge you could use a Hok + Scragger unit together. If you wanted to reach a far away target (one the Scraggers couldn't charge) the Hoks could charge up to 10, and the scraggers could double move to lend support, but at least it would give you that slight (3 inches) extra attacking range. It was merely a thought, everything I toss out is just an idea to be used or rebuffed, I don't take anything personal if you guys don't like soemthing I throw out (sometimes I don't like all my ideas either, but throwing them out gives options and maybe that spurs another idea).