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Spells that dropped to much in RC'08


shakhak
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As mentioned elsewhere "Scare". I don't know if it should revert fully to 10 points but 5 points seems a bit low to me. Maybe 8 points like ice shards ?

 

I'll quote SE from another topic on this:

I might agree that Scare has dropped too much, it might not have needed to drop at all. Its sort of one of those less used spells in my mind (I'm sure there are many groups who do us it, but I haven't seen it used much.

 

Take Bless, it is 10 points and give +1 to all rolls

 

Scare is 5 points and gives +2 to attack rolls against the affected models, (given that it is a ranged attack and Bless isn't I'd say this alone is worth 8-10 points, it isn't as easily cast a Bless and not nearly as versatile but it does have advantages)

 

Slow is 5 points and causes 1 model to lose 1 non-combat activation

 

Scare is 5 points and causes affected models to use a combat action or continue to remain shaken and suffer the consequences of that.

 

Scare is a 5 point spell, and in a rare event (very rare) if you can shake an out of cohesion shaken unit you can force the model to retreat.

 

It is probably a 10 points spell in my mind, but it won't be a real game breaker unless we see an army with 10 Lunks each running around with 2-3 Scares (Which is possible in 1000 points). Then the difference between 5 and 10 points might start to add up (10 Lunks X 3 scares x 5 points = 150 points).

 

The best thing I can say is that every time you take a Mage slap a Scare or 2 on it and see how effective it is over and over. Does your opponent learn to deal with it and its effect become less? I dunno, things like this are the reason for the beta.

Edited by vejlin
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I might agree with that about scare since it is an AOE spell. I havent used it enough to really give an opinion on that one.

 

But, overall I like the spell costs.

 

I am more thinking about how we might try to introduce some new spells or even bring some of those faction specific spells that went away back into play.

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Agreed, Scare is one of very few spells I think might not have been pointed correctly after a bit of discussion on its abilities.

 

Searing Pain is the other one. This spell, I feel, is too expensive:

 

It is essentially a cleric version of Bolt (we all have to understand that cleric attack spells have a premium cost, but I think Searing Pain id still to omuch)

 

Bolt is Level 1

SPain is Level 2

 

Bolt is usable by everyone

SPain is Evil/Neutral only (and the good Level 2 attack spell Holy Light is AOE and the same price as SPain, although it has no range).

 

Bolt is Range 18

Searing Pain is Range 12

 

Bolt is 5 points (and Ice Shards which does 2 points of damage is 8 points)

SPain is 10 points.

 

Truthfully, the fact that Searing Pain is a Level 2 spell, and shorter range is penalty enough for it being a Cleric spell, the spell could stand to be 5 points just like bolt and while I think they'd probably become far more in fashion I don't think they'd dominate the game, after all a Level 2 spell means giving up a slot that could carry a Cure 3. Many Clerics are 2/6 so giving up 1/3rd of your carrying capacity to toss in a 1 point 12 inch ranged attack doesn't feel wrong, even at 5 points.

 

Shell of the Coffin

I have an inkling that Shell of the Coffin used in a wide spread manner (say using 3 or 4 Maleks in 1000 points) could be an extremely cost effective way of removing hefty points cost models (ranged attackers) from having much effect on the game. Still I havn't seen this in play, just a notion I have.

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I am more thinking about how we might try to introduce some new spells or even bring some of those faction specific spells that went away back into play.

 

I've got a list of spells I'm working on and playing around with so I can dominate that thread when this comes up (like I hogged the Magic Item thread) ::P:

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As mentioned elsewhere "Scare". I don't know if it should revert fully to 10 points but 5 points seems a bit low to me. Maybe 8 points like ice shards ?

Unlike all of the spells SE listed in comparison which work against all opponents, Scare only works against a limited number of opponents. I have 4 armies: Army of Justice, Darkspawn (mostly Isiri), Crypt Legion, and Reptus. Scare only works against Reptus and a few of my Darkspawn models. I would only consider taking Scare on one of my mages if it were a one-time game against an opponent where I knew it would work (not a tourney) or if it were for a Crypt Legion mage that could use it as a Necromantic Surge if it turned out to be otherwise useless. Useful half of the time = half of the price.

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I'm not 100% convinced Scare is wrong, although I'm guessing it should be in the 8-10 range. More bringing it up so people can make note when playtesting.

 

Funnily enough, Scare might not be effective against the Armies you noted (which are nowhere near half, although I concede they are significant) but it is most effective when used by the armies you list as they don't suffer any ill effects when the spell is directly cast into Hand-to-Hand given that they can never be shaken in such an event. So it might not be some much a matter of the spell being next to useless when facing them, but rather the fact that at 5 points in the hands the right faction the spell might be quite powerful and far too cost effective.

 

The Fearless cost is built into the cost of the model, they are paying a premium for that ability, and such if I lose 2 or 3 Scare spells because of it then I'm probably not at as big a points deficit as you imagine I might be. I guess it is a danger you risk with all builds when you face an unknown opponent, plenty of models are more effective against one faction than another, but that doesn't mean their points cost should be lowered.

 

I just hope people include Scare in a few of their builds and we'll see how it works out; you might be right, it might be fine at 5 points, but as it stands there remains some doubt in my mind.

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I'll chime in and say that since the most recent Public Beta document, the following spell point changes have been made:

Scare & Shell of the coffin went up to 8 and Searing Pain dropped to 5

 

I expect the Final Public RC08 to be up within the week.

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Why is the cleric spell more expensive, yet has a shorter range?

 

Name: Stun

Casting Grade: Mage 3

Availability: All

Type: Attack Spell

Point Cost: 15

Range: 18"

Area of Effect: 2"

# Models Affected: All

Damage: N/A

LOS: Yes

Cast Defensively: No

Notes: If successfully cast the target Models lose both Actions on their next activation. Until the end of their next activation the affected Models will not be able to participate in combat, or provide any type of Support Bonus. Melee Attacks against the affected Models gain a +1 bonus to their MAV.

 

 

Name: Hold

Casting Grade: Cleric 3

Availability: All

Type: Attack Spell

Point Cost: 20

Range: 12"

Area of Effect: 2"

# Models Affected: All

Damage: N/A

LOS: Yes

Cast Defensively: No

Notes: If successfully cast the target Models lose both Actions on their next activation. Until the end of their next activation the affected Models will not be able to participate in combat (including defender adjust), or provide any type of Support Bonus. Melee Attacks against the affected Models gain a +1 bonus to their MAV.

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The game design reasoning behind making Clerics pay a premium is to prevent them from completely overshadowing Mages and making them obsolete. Being that clerics can take healing and Buff spells giving them offensive casting abilities without charging extra would allow them to trump Mage models.

 

I guess the reasoning was either charge the clerics the premium or prevent them from having attack spells, I'm glad they went the way they did, at least it gives you a few options for your clerics if you can't afford to take your Mage, even if you have to pay a little more, and get a little closer.

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