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New questions of the week--first strikes?


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2 Issues that came up in our weekly game tonight regarding first strike:

 

1) When does a model charged by a model with shock mae the shock roll? Do the attacking Models get their first strike?

 

We rulled that it happened before the first strikes based ont eh text of the shock rule, and common sence--what happens if the charged Model has first strike?

 

2) When a stunned modeld stands up and is force to be in base contact with a model with first strike that is attacked that round (and the first strike model is not based by any other model). Does the Model get its first strike that it can use to stun the model again before it can take any action?

 

We rulled that the model did get first strike based on the ruling from last week. However, this seems to make first strike overlypoweful.

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Issue 1

Make the shock roll first

Resolve all First Strikes (defending models would not get to if they failed their Shock)

Resolve all other attacks (dfending models would not get defensive strikes if they failed their Shock)

 

Issue 2

This is a tough call. While a stunned model is technically not in play while down, does that mean it isn't in BtB contact? If it stands up while someone is on top of it it can be shifted out of the way without any impact, so that suggests that the model isn't in B2B contact; but that is more a matter of game mechanics, 2 models can't occupy the same space.

 

One thing I will say, is that standing back up is a free action, there isn't any movement involved, and I think the use of First Strike (although it doesn't say so explicitly) is linked to movement, either the attacker or defending moving (in every other case but this one the model using first strike having to not be in B2B contact with an enemy at the beginning of the activation means they, or the enemy have to move for attack to take place). As standing up directly into BtB contact doesn't require a move action, I would suggest it probably shouldn't be valid for first strike attacks to be used.

 

First Strike is powerful, and Tough has lost much of its impact in RC07/08, so I would rule in favor of Tough on this one, but truthfully we'll have to wait for Gus to give us more official verdict.

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1) Shock says you need to make the shock check before you get any defensive swings. First strike defensive swings are still defensive swings, so you would have to make the shock check before any defensive swings.

 

2) This was answered last year, and is on ReaperGames' official FAQ:

 

Q) What are the rules for "stunned" (as per tough SA) models? Do they block LOS? Do you need to roll discipline to break B2B? Do they count as enemies in B2B for purposes of Firststrike and Shock? Are they moved out of the way to make room for additional charges, or do they still take up room? Can you Charge a Stunned Model?

 

A) They do not block LOS, you do not need to roll to break away, they do not count as enemies in B2B, they can be kicked out of the way as needed, and they can be charged.

 

So the answer is that if a First Strike model is in B2B with a stunned model, and the stunned model gets up and attacks the First Strike model, the First Strike model could indeed stun the model again before the stunned model could damage the First Strike model.

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Unless I absolutely had to, I wouldn't use a model on its last track to attack a first strike model like that... It'd be far better to count yourself lucky to have made your tough roll and stay in b2b with the first striker, without making an attack against it on your activation. When the first striker next activates, it will be in b2b and thus will not get to make its first strike attack - meaning you get to make your defensive strike!

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Unless I absolutely had to, I wouldn't use a model on its last track to attack a first strike model like that... It'd be far better to count yourself lucky to have made your tough roll and stay in b2b with the first striker, without making an attack against it on your activation. When the first striker next activates, it will be in b2b and thus will not get to make its first strike attack - meaning you get to make your defensive strike!

 

I would normally agree, but in certain circumstance, it is not possible to move the model out of base contact, and since the Defender can allocate Def. Strikes to any model providing support, there are times when it cannot be avoided. Thus (as happened here) it the Defending Model was attacked by several other models, and the Defender chose to allocate the stiek to the model on its last line. Can an attacker declare that a model is not providing support and therefore is not a valid target for a defensive strike?

 

Or there are also instnaces when an entire force (or the great majority of it) has first strike.

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Unless I absolutely had to, I wouldn't use a model on its last track to attack a first strike model like that... It'd be far better to count yourself lucky to have made your tough roll and stay in b2b with the first striker, without making an attack against it on your activation. When the first striker next activates, it will be in b2b and thus will not get to make its first strike attack - meaning you get to make your defensive strike!

 

I would normally agree, but in certain circumstance, it is not possible to move the model out of base contact, and since the Defender can allocate Def. Strikes to any model providing support, there are times when it cannot be avoided. Thus (as happened here) it the Defending Model was attacked by several other models, and the Defender chose to allocate the stiek to the model on its last line. Can an attacker declare that a model is not providing support and therefore is not a valid target for a defensive strike?

 

Or there are also instnaces when an entire force (or the great majority of it) has first strike.

If a model is in b2b , it is always a valid target whether it declares support or not . Yes , you can attack models with multiple models that possess first strike and if the dice favour you , kill it without any defensive strikes . :poke:

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