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Alternate initiative system


Knarfy
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I have to admit, Im not all that fond of cards and tokens for initiative. Its somewhat novel, but that doesnt last very long. And really, its just kind of clunky. (to me anyway)

 

So, I came up with a dice based alternative. (this may already exist somewhere, but meh)

 

It works pretty much as follows:

 

For each card/token a player would have in the initiative deck, they instead recieve one die.

 

When determining initiative, each player rolls their dice. The player with the highest single die wins initiative. If the highest dice are the same, compare the next highest and so on. If there is a tie, roll again. When a player activates a unit, they remove a die from their pool. Pools refresh each new turn.

 

Spies would be handled just like when using tokens. (If you bury a 'card', just take out a die and put it in a row or something, and go through the row when everyone is out of other units)

 

Normally when using cards, if a troop or a tactician is killed during the turn you dont take out their card untill the next turn for obvious reasons. You can play it that way with the dice, and not re-calculate the pool untill the next turn, or you can take them out right away. You should decide before hand with your opponent.

 

The kind of dice your using dont matter TOO much, though I would assume you would use D10's since thats what warlord uses...

 

Anyway, have fun, and tell me what you think :)

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Although that does not sound bad at all, I think your system is actually more clunky. Or at least it takes a lot more time.

 

Flip a card takes 1 second. look at it no questin who it is.. go...

 

But, me I dontlike cards cause its tugh to shuffle 2-3 cards. I pefer the draw out of a hat. I use dice too. Just making sure tat all the dice in the bag are the exact same size, shape, and feel so that when someone is drawing them out of the hat they cant "feel" the difference to be able to cheat.

 

Again, drop the dice i the bag, shake, and draw one out.. fast simple clean.. Spy? just set that one to the side for a moment and come back o it later. simple...

 

You system although interesting requires me to look and compare and take time to figure it out. This game already added more time to it with some of the changes made to it over the past year. At this point we are trying to look for ways to streamline it and make it faster not add things that make it even slower.

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Here's a few I've thought of but never used since I like the card system. But it would be nice to have some official alternatives, because I've heard it requested multiple times, locally and on the forums.

 

 

Dice Initiative:

Each player determines their Initiative modifier. To do this they add +1 for each troop in their army that has not already activated and +1 for each tactitian if they chose to use the ability for this round. ex: If an army has 3 troops, 1 solo, and 2 tacticians they have a +6 for their initiative modifier. If they want a less likely chance to go, they don't have to use the tactitians and get a +4.

The players roll opposing Initiative checks. d10 + Modifier. The higher roll goes first.

The player who activates cannot activate that troop again and their Initiative is dropped is lowered so that it only includes the remaining, unactivated troops.

Each new round the Initiative modifier is recalculated.

 

Preset Initiative:

Set the order of initiative at the very beginning of the game. Start with the troop that is the most expensive, end with the one that is least expensive. Tacticians allow you to add 100 points to your troop total when the initiative order is being set at the beginning of the game. Once set the order doesn't change throughout the game.

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This strikes me as funny. Long before Warlord, I converted a lot of other games into card-based initiative games. 40K was great with cards, but no one wanted to step out of the box and play it that way and I refused to play IGO/UGO. What's funny is I never did it for Warlord...because, obviously, Warlord already has it.

That said, I like Knarfy's idea. I think the cards are a smoother mechanic, but if you play it that way, let us know how it all turned out.

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If you have more fun using dice or other alternatives, that's cool. To me, the other alternatives seem slower and more complicated than using cards and don't add any benefit, so I prefer to stick with the cards. What I think would be neat, though, is if Reaper would sell a classy, high-quality print initiative deck. Basically, one deck of cards that contains eight cards for each faction, plus four wild cards for really big games where you need more than eight initiative cards (so, 104 cards total plus jokers, or the equivalent of 2 standard decks of cards). The back of each card would have the Warlord logo. The front would have a faction symbol with some character art for that faction. I suggested just one big deck of 100+ cards instead of several different ones in order to keep costs down.

 

Obviously, something like this is totally superfluous and would probably appeal more to fanboys and die-hard players (myself included ::D: ), but I think it has the possibility of selling well; there are official dice and tokens that Gale Force Nine makes for Warmachine, Hordes, and other games, so there does seem to be a market for "official" game accessories.

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Savage Worlds has it down. Putting it into use in Warlord games, each unit would be dealt a card from a standard deck. You go by the highest card, and in the event of a tie, you go in descending order of the suits, Spades, Hearts, Diamonds, Clubs. For tactitian, you'd have to do something similar to the Edge in Savage Worlds that lets you draw a new card if you are dealt lower than a five. For Spy, perhaps some deferred turn sequence would work.

 

It's far easier to shuffle a full sized deck of cards than the few normally used in a Warlord game. We love it for Savage Worlds, and if we ever come back to Warlord, we'll use it instead of the tokens in a hat, dice, or anything we've seen or heard thus far.

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I've only ever had problems with the card initiative when there's only 2 or 3 cards left. To overcome that, one player shuffles below the table, then puts the "deck" on the table. The other person may choose to cut and flip, or simply flip over the top card.

 

I like the OP's idea. Using d10's would give you a better chance of getting a highest number that isn't matched than, say, 6's, and those are the two dice you see most while playing Warlord. So I'd say use your 10's.

 

Do you lose your extra tactician dice when the tactician model activates?

 

Pretty much, I'm a fan of anything that isn't "I go with everything I have, then you go with everything you have."

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Savage Worlds has it down. Putting it into use in Warlord games, each unit would be dealt a card from a standard deck. You go by the highest card, and in the event of a tie, you go in descending order of the suits, Spades, Hearts, Diamonds, Clubs. For tactitian, you'd have to do something similar to the Edge in Savage Worlds that lets you draw a new card if you are dealt lower than a five. For Spy, perhaps some deferred turn sequence would work.

 

It's far easier to shuffle a full sized deck of cards than the few normally used in a Warlord game. We love it for Savage Worlds, and if we ever come back to Warlord, we'll use it instead of the tokens in a hat, dice, or anything we've seen or heard thus far.

 

I like the Savage Worlds initiative system, for the RPG. But for Warlord I like that you do not know which troop will activate next.

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One thing I will say, is that initiative is one of the most important factors in the game, if you change it you change a huge component about the way things work throughout the turn.

 

Play however you want, thats the beauty of house rules and customizing the game, so long as everyone in your group agrees more power to you.

 

I like the way initiative works as is and vastly prefer the fact that you don't know which unit is activating next to anything else, it forces you to constantly be thinking about your options and your opponents. I can't imagine the initiative system being more simple than it is now. The game would be a lot less fun if it was more predictable, and given that you can build your force to cater to the initiative system with each of your builds there isn't any way to complain it isn't fair.

 

(Like Stubbdog we use different coloured chits in a bag instead of cards)

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Instead of cards, I like to use dice. We put the samer number of dice in a bag that you would use cards and we have one color of dice for each player. You draw from the bag instead of flipping cards and you place the die next to the unit after activation. I'm sure many other players do something like this as shuffling tiny decks of cards is annoying.

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Instead of cards, I use tokens drawn from a bag. The tokens are made from fender washers with faction symbols on them. Very easy, and it works well.

 

One of these days, I'll get around to writing up that craft article about how to make them. :rolleyes:

 

Ron

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Do you lose your extra tactician dice when the tactician model activates?

 

Do you take your tacticians card out when it activates? ;)

 

The main thing I like about using a roll-off system, is that you dont have to waste time shuffling the cards, and no one person is drawing from the initiative deck. Everyone is involved in the initiative phase, and the in-between rounds prep is reduced to sweeping up some dice.

 

I dont have to shuffle some cards/put some tokens in a bag/whatever.

 

Each player just picks up some dice and rolls.

 

You also dont have to worry about the tokens or cards being marked somehow. Its all right there on the table.

 

Anyway, me and Psyberwolfe played this way last thursday, and I dont think we will ever be going back :)

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I can't imagine how tokens in a bag being pulled out (we take turns pulling the tokens) could be simpler or more straight forward (if you are trying to convince yourself dice rolling is less time consuming you're sadly mistaken), and if you are playing with people you're worried about marking chits or cards you're playing with the wrong people. If you have a house rule you enjoy go for it, but I can't see this becoming widespread as the current initiative system is one of the best parts of the game.

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I can't imagine how tokens in a bag being pulled out (we take turns pulling the tokens) could be simpler or more straight forward (if you are trying to convince yourself dice rolling is less time consuming you're sadly mistaken), and if you are playing with people you're worried about marking chits or cards you're playing with the wrong people. If you have a house rule you enjoy go for it, but I can't see this becoming widespread as the current initiative system is one of the best parts of the game.

 

I absolutely disagree with you that the card/token initiative system is the best part about Warlord. I actually think it is the most cumbersome part of the game. He and I both really liked the rolling off because it really did speed things up, because as veteran wargamers our dice are almost always in our hand. It also gave us a clear "time for another activation" feel. It did speed up our game because we weren't looing for the bag/sack that was placed out of the way. Dice are always at hand and always quick to read.

 

We did the "dice as tokens" way and it works ok. Cards it always felt like no matter what we did they would end up being stacked in an IGO/UGO fashion, which is horible for this game. Dice just work better for us. I do suggest giving it a spin. It was a lot of fun.

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