Bloodstone Gnomes

[rgtriplec]

These guys don't have a Factions and Tactics pinned. Maybe a mod or Reaper peep could pin this one.

 

I've read the fluff, and its very interesting. Though it's a little ironic that these builders of a great subteranian empire none have "burrow".

 

When I first glanced over the faction abilities I thought they seemed okay. Now I'm leaning more towards the worst in the game. Whats the point of being able to move a max of 24" underground and then having to surface or wait for your opponent attack. Sure it saves you from a few ranged or magic attacks for one round but that seems weak compared to most of the other fa's, especially if you are facing a melee heavy army.

 

seems like a very easily countered ability. If the bsg's stay underground then just totally evelope a couple troops they'll surface eventually. Also unless you are in a tourney where you don't know opponents, who that faces this army won't bring a couple cheap mages with rock friends or their own burrowers?

 

I'd have rather seen a few models with burrow and a different FA. Maybe something based around the bloodstone and magic.

 

I'll still field them because I want a hobbitlike army and have already bought 50 halflingesque proxies.

 

Granted I haven't played them yet but on paper the FA's are uninspiring.

[spiritual_exorcist]

The entire army can burrow at the beginning of the game, that's more than enough in my opinion. I think their ability is quite substantial given their combat abilities and low number of damage tracks, avoiding 1-2 turns of ranged attacks and spells will make all the difference. Played intelligently I think it is a pretty decent ability.

 

Truthfully if you wanted in on their FA discussion you should have complained a month ago while the game was in beta, we did discuss this very item at some length. Nothing personal, but at this point I'm just tired of hearing about problems with the BSG given the amount of time that has been spent working on and revising them to alleviate concerns, I think the end results are pretty decent.

[Fruggs]

The burrow for the first turn to wait is actually pretty beneficial, as I have played it and waited on the opponent to cross. then you throw some grunts to pin in place and backstab in the back.

They are a little tricky as the low tracks but played with that in mind and using the matron to heal keeps em around for a while to really chew up some forces. Esp with the smite mounted and warmaster for some.

[rgtriplec]

The burrow for the first turn to wait is actually pretty beneficial, as I have played it and waited on the opponent to cross. then you throw some grunts to pin in place and backstab in the back.

They are a little tricky as the low tracks but played with that in mind and using the matron to heal keeps em around for a while to really chew up some forces. Esp with the smite mounted and warmaster for some.

 

Well hopefully I'd never walk into an ambush like that, one I could see. I'd try to force you to come to me by not advancing or I'd cast rockfriends and force you into melee on my terms not yours. The other bonus to the burrow FA is avoiding range... if your front is made up of any leader, hero or monster, pulgers, knights or guards your range dv is 13-16 anyway and how much range is in place in round one anyway. So with the 13-16 dv how much range damage will there be, probably very little.

 

My comment is not so much a complaint as an observation. I think the gnomes will be very powerful with just the ranked FA and may be the best mob type army out there.

[spiritual_exorcist]

Truthfully I would tend to lead with my crappiest troops in front as a meat shield, with only 2 damage tracks the Gnomes are too fragile to risk a leader or adept going down to a lucky shot (especially a critical shot), I'd have scraggers in front, so I find the 1-2 turns underground very beneficial given its ability to preserve my defense.

 

I find quite a substantial amount of casting and ranged attacks occur in the first turn of the game so avoiding that is a premium to me.

 

Likewise using the burrowing ability makes your opponent predictable if you sit back and wait in your deployment zone every time you face the Gnomes, it also keeps your opponent clumped in near the back of the board, potentially making them more vulnerable to things like AOE spells.

 

I think you've struck the nail on the head, the Gnome army itself is a decent tool, and therefore didn't warrant a really potent FA in order to maintain game balance.

[rgtriplec]

To not engage you don't particularly need to sit in your deployment zone. You can flank and even go behind if you have cav or super fast models.

[Stubbdog]

Well, we apprciate your input. At this point it is set for them for now.

 

Well, best i can say is that if, over time, it turns out to be necessary to change the FA, that is always possible down the road. Or, maybe as new datacards are introduced possibly a sublist could come out with something different.

 

For now, it is what it is.

 

On a flip note, I can say that in scenario games that burrowed can make a bit more difference, being able to get to target points unhindered quickly sometimes.

[spiritual_exorcist]

I'd say give the Gnomes a few good playtests and keep notes, if in the future it becomes apparent that the current FA isn't enough and Reaper revisits the FA they'll have hard data to use in order to tweak the FA.

 

The game is pretty dynamic, there are alot of options, I think some players will really take advantage of this, and some opponents will learn to take effective counterbuilds. I have to agree with Jason, the little guys would have been tough to play against in many of the Reapercon scenarios from last year, we all tend to think of the game as one in which we play to until th elast man standing (I know I do) but the little Gnomes should do fantastic in various looting or bypassing situations.

[rgtriplec]

Well, we apprciate your input. At this point it is set for them for now.

 

Well, best i can say is that if, over time, it turns out to be necessary to change the FA, that is always possible down the road. Or, maybe as new datacards are introduced possibly a sublist could come out with something different.

 

For now, it is what it is.

 

On a flip note, I can say that in scenario games that burrowed can make a bit more difference, being able to get to target points unhindered quickly sometimes.

 

The post was never meant to change anything. It was to start a tactic thread. I was just saying I don't think the FA will be that helpful. I was hoping to get posts like Fruggs that spell out a tactic or build.

 

I plan to play them in a tournament, so I don't think they are weak. I'll probably take a troop of pinners to soften and snipe. In the warlords troop I'll take knights the two big heroes and champion to fill the limit and pulgers to max mob. Then a small troop with a couple beetles and the mage and another small troop of pulgers. I'll fill the other two elite slots with the cleric.

 

The plan is to do as much damage in a couple rounds as possible with the range and magic. Then rally around the large Warlord troop and melee until one side is dead.

[Saint Vierzehn]

Truthfully if you wanted in on their FA discussion you should have complained a month ago while the game was in beta, we did discuss this very item at some length. Nothing personal, but at this point I'm just tired of hearing about problems with the BSG given the amount of time that has been spent working on and revising them to alleviate concerns, I think the end results are pretty decent.

 

 

That conversation resulted in dialing back the very worst of the abuses on the BSG list, but didn't go far enough. 33 points for a MAV 5 model with 3 attacks and warmaster and good DV is insane. And the charnel grub is still just plain whacky.

 

Reaper did a rush-to-production on the BSG's. and that shows in the quality of the end product.

 

-StV.

[rgtriplec]

[

 

That conversation resulted in dialing back the very worst of the abuses on the BSG list, but didn't go far enough. 33 points for a MAV 5 model with 3 attacks and warmaster and good DV is insane. And the charnel grub is still just plain whacky.

 

Reaper did a rush-to-production on the BSG's. and that shows in the quality of the end product.

 

-StV.

 

I don't really think they are out of line. They are the most expensive 2 tracks in the game. There are probably two dozen 3 track models that cost less. Considering they get killed so quickly the 30 points seems fair, they are glorified goblins. Its not hard to see a troop of 4 3/track Valkyries killing 6 in a turn. Heaven forbid you draw the Justice League in a tournament with their smite evil and shock troops. Granted they are going to be hard hitting and dominate certain armies, but at the end of the day they have weaknesses and will get crushed often.