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I am new to this site and whole computer thing.,...but am a long time dark heaven apocalypse fan, have been playing for long time,...just some questions...seige rules, are there any, even if it is just storming ladders? what happened to my beloved apocalypse :( ? why Taltos, (as long as i been playing most of us considered it a backwater hobo land, only defended by people in my group who didnt want khardullis blessings on it :angry: ? starting to try out the new beta, just looking for others opinions..thanks
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Welcome aboard. no rules for siege engines yet, but the section "Urban Stunts" covers a lot of the activities involved with ladders and climbing, breaking down doors and other such things.

 

IMO, Taltos was chosen for the wide variety of factions that could be in operation there. EVERYBODY has a finger in this pie...

 

I also played a lot of DHA, and still will for really big actions. WARLORD is more clear in its layout, and runs magic more easily. I think you will really enjoy it.

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well, tried warlord...loved it, despite the heretics thwarting my attempt to bring them peace and tranquitlity :angry: they will suffer. as for the rules, they are at first a bit too get used to, particularly being hit more than once...not that i mind being tougher, but i am a little confused by the card system, specifically i have to admit i prefer the mc system, but the cards (note: we were probobly doing it messed up anyway) seamed to give on side or the other too many moves in a row. I will admit to being a stubborn, nostalgic capricorn so i guess i should try it some more, but i really would like a more flowing system between players,...or failing that, make reaper produce a deck specifically for warlord instead of using playing cards. just my 2 cents :oo:
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...the cards seamed to give on side or the other too many moves in a row...

True, but no more random than dice would be.  The difference, though, is that the deck has "memory" - if you draw fewer at the start, your odds increase at the end.

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I agree abngi, but in DHA's outstanding system based on CL it was always alternating, no luck involved really...you could plan strategy based on the relative movement ability of your troops. I figured, why ruin a good thing that reaper had going. I realize thats the past and this is the now, but I think it would really be benificial to warlord to consider that as an alternative to an unwieldy card deck.
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The card system, as opposed to alternation, addresses two issues:

 

1) If your opponent has many tiny units, with alternation he can outlast you, then move all his strong units at the (effectively) same time, when you can no longer react.

 

2) If you want initiative to be part of your strategy, use more leaders with the Tactician special ability.  Lets you stack the odds, at a cost, without it being a sure thing.

 

As for unweildy:  you flip a card, then either bury it (if you can) or move a unit - quick and easy, in my opinion.

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Another benefit is in multi-player games:  keeps things moving, and everyone involved.

 

Yet another benefit:  drama.  It can actually build up a sence of anticipation, when you really want to move next, but don't know if you will.  Great fun when doing demos, or any time you want to ham it up.  All part of the gaming experience.

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This form of "initiative was first used in military boardgames. The example I remember is S. CraigTaylor's "Assault/Firepower"

series from Yanquinto/Avalon Hill. We found that this system could provide a real "fog of war", making you either "cover your bases" or "take your chances" not knowing who would go next. Yes, things can "stack up" at times, but that just adds to the frustrations of a commander(did they get my order? Are they obeying my order?). A much better tactical feel than the mlore standard "Igo/Ugo".

  BTW, for some games, I have tried the proper number of colored stones, instead of cards. I sometimes feel that it is hard to randomize six or seven cards....no matter how you try, a pattern seems to emerge. Stones in a tin cup don't allow for this.

  The randomness of actions makes combat more exciting. The ability to charge in and get your full complements of attacks is a huge benefit. The initiative system makes you think about getting into charge range.

  try several 500 point games and I think the system will grow on you. I believe Matt and the guys at Reaper have "modelled" the best skirmish system EVER. I am 100% sold on it.

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BTW, for some games, I have tried the proper number of colored stones, instead of cards. I sometimes feel that it is hard to randomize six or seven cards....no matter how you try, a pattern seems to emerge. Stones in a tin cup don't allow for this.

Now why didn't I think of that?  :oo:

Drawing colored stones from a bag would be much easier than attempting to shuffle 5 or 6 cards.

 

That's a rule change I would deffinately support.

 

-Caius

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How about different coloured Reaper skulls instead of stones.  I presume that Reaper already has a mold for the skulls that they put in the paint pots, so all they would need do is to add a few different colours and toss them in a baggie.

 

Instant Warlord Initiative Skulls.  Little overhead costs in producing those I would suppose (as compared to a Deck of Many Tallin's.)   :;):

 

I definitely like the idea of coloured skulls and/or a Warlord Deck though.  Pulling out an Ace of Spades or a 7 of Diamonds just sort of squishes the flavour of the event IMO.  (But them I am Opsessive Compulsive with this stuff... I have to touch a mini while I look at it.)   :cool:

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The only problem with the token method is that it alters the "bury a card" mechanic - normally, the buried card would go to the bottom of the deck;  with tokens, it just goes back into the pool.

 

I don't mind that alteration, personally.  We used, for a while, flat wooden discs with each person's symbol painted on one side.  Mixed them in a cup, then had a non-player stack them symbol-side down.  Not worth the hassle, though - we now go with the colored tokens in a cup.

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I have to admit, we tried it this weekend several more times,...it appears that i am the only hokdout who still prefers DHA's cl/mm system to warlords cards..but we do all agree that it would be much better if reaper made a special deck. the old playing cards just dont quite keep the feel and seems ad hoc. on the plus side though i added several more slaves to work the forges of dartha :angry:  huzzah!! so i may be getting the hang of warlord. the looting is a cool concept and we kinda went overboard woth it by adding it into our campaign for saving points to buy more goons. tonight we will try the colored stones you all have mentioned, that might help, though i think after drawn well leave em out of the cup till next turn. thanks folks :D
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...though i think after drawn well leave em out of the cup till next turn...

The only tokens that should be returned to the cup are "buried" tokens - the ones used to activate troops stay out, so the overall ratio (side vs side) stays proportional to the number of troops in the fighting company.

 

Wow, that came out long winded and technical.  Oh well.

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Wouldn't 'burying' a stone mean leaving it out of the cup, since essentially you're passing on an opportunity to activate a section/company/whatever and since you'll never get to the bottom of the deck (it's got too many cards, so you won't need too) what's the difference.... by adding it back in you're maintaining the skewed odds in your favour and not returning them to their original numbers.....

 

As for beads or whatever, this is something I hadn't considered although I admit it should work well. I've had problems with CAV's initiative card system, and it's taken some of my players a lot of time to adjust to the possible string of moves (tends to hurt a tad I've found).

 

Something which I've done is to double or quadruple the number of cards in the deck. That way you're maintaining the odds of your original Initaitive Deck, but you're doubling the physical size of it and thus making it easier to shuffle and stuff. And so what if the turn ends with half a deck left..... it makes no difference what so ever.

 

I'll try out the beads when I play CAV next.... we'll see which we like more. Thanks for the idea though.

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