Reven

[rgtriplec]

Although, last spring we had a discussion in this thread about Goblins possibly splitting off into their own Reven. I don't really want the goblins to spin off, but I would like them improved. Here are some things that I would like to see changed.

 

For instance the goblins are considered the most magical of the Reven, and since Yagun Oog and Greka are evil affiliated casters they should be in the Noghra list. I would change the Hill Giants to Evil, and would also allow the other goblinoid races to join the Noghra i.e. Bugbears and Hobgoblins, and would add the DHL Goblin Wolves as the Reven's distract model.

 

My idea for the army list would be:

 

Gronkelfibbets and Mazak

Gronk Spliteye, Bugbear

Ogg, Sergeant

Neek, Sergeant

Gonda, Cleric

Yagun Oog, Mage

Lunk, Mage

Skralla, Unq. Rogue

Korgug, Bugbear Bully

Bugbear Warriors

Harpy, Adept

Goblin Ranger, Adept

Goblin Beastrider, Adept

Goblin Wolves

Hobgoblins DHL 3040

Goblin Skeeter, Grunt

Goblin Warrior, Grunt

Greka, Solitaire (Mage/Cleric)

Hill Giant, Monster (change to evil)

 

THE GOBLIN CLANS

Gobblings NOTE: These should be the size of 15mm goblins with three per Standard Base

Goblin Worm Bait 14394

Goblin Line Smashers 14429

Goblin Stingers 14373

Goblin Short Fangs

 

 

Totem of Magic

When an all Noghra Company takes a Totem of Battle and the Warlord, they gain +2 MD in addition to the totem's normal bonus.

 

Goblin Horde

All Leader Models without Mob/# gain Mob/5. Leader models with Mob may add 5 to their existing

Mob capacity. All "goblin" models gain the Ranger SA, and the Leap SA. All "goblin" grunt Models gain the Mob SA. Additionally, Support Bonuses are capped at +5 instead of +3.

 

Mob Mentality

Whenever a Model with the Mob SA must make a DIS check for making B2B contact with an enemy

Model, it receives +1 to this roll for every friendly Model that is also in B2B contact with the target

Model, and also a +1 bonus to this check for every friendly Model making a charge action against the

same target Model this Action Phase.

 

Goblin Band

An all Noghra list ignores the “Chain of Command” rules, and therefore does not require Captains or a

Warlord (even for large games that normally require a Warlord). Additionally, any Soldier Model may become a Leader and gain Troop Capacity “4-8/1” when leading a Troop with

at least 3 other Models that also use its own original Data Card. The Leader Goblin Model should be

marked in some way to distinguish it from the other Goblins. The Leader model cannot take equipment

restricted to Leader models.

 

The Fire Keg specialty upgrade is not unique in an all Nohgra company.

 

New SA Rabies - It could work similarly to Poison Strike.

 

Card Ideas...

 

 

Goblings

Affiliation: Noghra Only/Evil Points:

Model: Grunt Base: Standard

Dmg 0

Mov 6

Dis 3

DV 4

MD 4

MAV 2

#MA 1

NOTE: These should be the size of 15mm goblins with three per Standard Base

 

Goblin Worm Bait 14394

Affiliation: Noghra Only/Evil Cost:

Rank: Adept Base: Std

Dmg 0

Mov 6

Dis 5

DV 8

MD 8

S.A.: Ranger, Rabies

MAV 5

#MA 2

MOV 6

S.A.: Burrow

 

Goblin Line Smashers 14429

Affiliation: Noghra Only/Evil Cost:

Rank: Adept Base: Std

Dmg 0

Move 6

Dis 3

DV 9

MD 9

S.A.: Deflect/2, Improved Charge/4, Rabies

MAV 5

#MA 1 SA. Critical Strike/2

 

Goblin Stingers 14373

Affiliation: Noghra Only/Evil Cost:

Rank: Adept Base: Std

Dmg 0

Mov 6

Dis 3

DV 6

MD 6

MAV 2

#MA 1

RAV 4

#RA 1 Rng(24) S.A.: Marksman/2, Defensive Shot, Critical Shot/4

 

Goblin Short Fangs

Affiliation: Reven/Evil Cost:

Rank: Adept Base: Std

Dmg 0

Mov 6

Dis 4

DV 9

MD 9

S.A.: Rabies

MAV 4

#MA 3 SA Warmaster

 

Goblin Wolves

Affiliation: Noghra/Evil Cost:

Rank: Grunt Base: Cav

Dmg 0 1

Mov 8 6

Dis 5 4

DV 8 6

MD 10 8

S.A.: Beast, Improved Charge/4, Rabies

MAV 3 2

#MA 3 S.A.: Disable, Warmaster

 

 

Hobgoblins DHL 3040

Affiliation: Reven/Evil Points:

Model: Adept

Base: Standard

Dmg 0 1 2

Mov 5 4 3

Dis 5 4 3

DV 12 11 9

MD 9 8 7

S.A.: Tough/1

MAV 7 6 5

#MA 1 S.A.: Critical Strike/3

 

Edited by rgtriplec

[bluethunder]

Greka's an ork. I think that would disqualify her from that list... At least I think she's an ork!?!

[bluethunder]

The problem with Hill Giant and Teleport is that the caster and Hill Giant can't activate at the same time as part of the same unit. So if you teleport a Solo like the Hill Giant you have to leave him out in the cold until his next activation all vulnerable.

 

Better to use teleport on a model like Varaug who can activate as part of the casting clerics troop, so you cast teleport and initiate melee afterwards before your opponent can activate and do anything about it.

 

Kiakara + Bloodmane or Gaaguk would be a great combination I think.

 

What about teleporting a juicy enemy target model into a possition where every one gets in on the beat down?

[rgtriplec]

Greka's an ork. I think that would disqualify her from that list... At least I think she's an ork!?!

 

She is an ork and Yagun is an Ogre but they are evil and not neutral, being evil they have more in common with the Noghra than the rest of the Reven. Also fluffwise the great magic of the Reven flows from the goblins, which would be another reason they, both casters, would rather be with the goblins and the greater magic. Greka is also a solitaire, a loner, a hermit so she fits anywhere because she is essentially always on her own, which is a very goblinesque way to be.

[Spike]

That's one of those things about the Reven I never could quite sort out. You'd think that the Tomukh would be an exclusive club, as well as the Noghra...but noooo.

 

It was painful trying to rationalise why the bull orcs were letting river trolls hang around with them, and now I'm trying to work out how it is that the goblins and their vast hankering for all-things-magic cannot get a mage that's better than Yagun Oog. It just doesn't wash anymore.

 

Seriously though...when's the last time anybody won a game with Noghra? I've only seen it done twice, and one of those times I'm willing to credit the win to inexperienced opponent. The faction is screwed up in spite of the game engine. My guess is that it's the lousy faction ability to blame. Mob Mentaility is their strength, but considering the low AVs, the low number of damage tracks, and the lack of access to Reach attacks, it's like giving the dog teeth and then putting on the muzzle.

 

And that's my $.02

[rgtriplec]

No, I totally agree. When the game changed to multiple track grunts it ruined the Noghra. Players... even Gus, the Reaper crew, the fortunate few that hang out in Denton and playtest everything and BLs, none remember or possibly never knew how much better version 1 goblins were to version 2. Also Lunk was a beast back then, one of the top mages. When the change occurred they didn't take into account how leaving goblins with one track would play out without giving them anything to boost the list. Also by removing Small from the game they hurt the goblins, being small was one of their advantages. Goblin Rangers and Short Fangs were better than Lesser Orc grunts and as good as Hunters and Woodcutters. Neek was as good as Urga, Kharg and Gakalath.

 

No one remembers but Skeeters and Stingers were BETTER than Vale Archers. The Goblins had 2 of the best 4 archers in the game. The clans were great because they were useful. A Shortfang could hold its own against any soldier type, Stingers were elite archers and Wormbait were the only burrowing soldier and the could fight with the best. Now... Wormbait, Flingers and Line Smashers are less than jokes, they are actually sad. You should actually get points for just fielding them like Luck of the Albatross.

 

If the noghra do not get the evil Mages, the bugbears, and the hobgoblins, new clans and the goblin wolves... and they stay one track with no offence, then they should be re-cost to about 5 points per warrior.

 

IMO the Noghra with their current FAs, and improved goblin clans' stats, and with the suggested models expansion, and by adding Ranger, Leap, Rabies, non-unique fire keg and Totem of Magic that the Noghra will be competitive. They definately will not game breakers, but at least they'll be legitimate.

 

 

 

Edited by rgtriplec

[bluethunder]

I like it that some of the lists are harder to win with. I will often play a disadvantaged list when I am playing against a less experienced opponent.

 

I think that winning with a list like that against an experienced player is more satisfying.

[rgtriplec]

I like it that some of the lists are harder to win with. I will often play a disadvantaged list when I am playing against a less experienced opponent.

 

I think that winning with a list like that against an experienced player is more satisfying.

 

Okay, I'll come up to Dayton after the holidays and you can be goblins. Dewen had said he would go to Dayton if it on the weekend. If he comes I bet Shakhak might come.

 

You and two of your guys can be 4500 of goblins. I'll bring Reven or Dwarfs, I think Dewen is playing Vamps and I believe Shakhak is playing Koborles.

[bluethunder]

Wow, that would be one hell of an up hill climb. I'd love it, but I think I'd have to sub a a few goblins. I also think the koborlas would present the greatest challenge.

 

If you guys are serious I'll see who I can wrangle up!

Edited December 22, 2008 by bluethunder

[rgtriplec]

Wow, that would be one hell of an up hill climb. I'd love it, but I think I'd have to sub a a few goblins. I also think the koborlas would present the greatest challenge.

 

If you guys are serious I'll see who I can wrangle up!

 

I know Dave will come depending on the date, because I just told him last week I was going to start playing occasionally in Dayton... and he said we could carpool if it was a weekend game. I haven't talked to Adam but I think he'd be up for it, especially if it had a few scenerio twists. Doesn't really matter if the others can make it. I'll come and we can still play a couple 1000 or 1500 games or a big 2000 or 2500, just us.

 

I have about 150 gobbos, 3-4 beastriders and 4 goblin wolves that I use for beastriders, and two lonely harpies you are welcome to. I also have about 50 dhl hobbits.

[bluethunder]

I've sent a message to Kyderdog, and he has a buddy, Mike, who has about a hundred goblins.

 

What ever we do I was definitly thinking about scenarios. We could each bring a couple and throw them in a hat. We run the scenario that is drawn randomly.

[shakhak]

Give me a few weeks notice and I will be there to watch the waves of goblins crash down upon the other armies.

 

 

I have never really seen the goblins get crushed before. The few games I've seen them played it seemed competitive.

 

I think Spike is close in saying that they could use a little more diversity and even a stronger Faction Ability, but that's true for a few sublists.

 

I also agree with rg3c that that several of the models kind of lost focus for what they are supposed to be. Skeeters should be great archers, because the fluff says they are.

[Spike]

You got it,Shak! When I started playing WL, the goblin Skeeters were seriously worth the 66 apiece because they had Marksman, they were Small (could have a second rank of normal sized archers behind them) and they could shoot twice (forgot what that SA was called) if they didn't move.

 

ONe thought might be to give the Small SA back and include in its description that when Small attackers are in b2b with an enemy model, friendly archers can still shoot at same enemy target (kind of like elves can) but perhaps with a -1 to hit.

[rgtriplec]

You got it,Shak! When I started playing WL, the goblin Skeeters were seriously worth the 66 apiece because they had Marksman, they were Small (could have a second rank of normal sized archers behind them) and they could shoot twice (forgot what that SA was called) if they didn't move.

 

ONe thought might be to give the Small SA back and include in its description that when Small attackers are in b2b with an enemy model, friendly archers can still shoot at same enemy target (kind of like elves can) but perhaps with a -1 to hit.

 

When they were going from one LOS rule to the next, just after 2.0. I argued until I was blue in the face that taking away small unfairly hurt the goblins, Dingo and even the Wadogs and Garr, but it never got changed back... even when we went back to the LOS rules that used it.

 

I'd love for small to come back. Both Skeeters and Stingers both had Marksman. The thing that made the Skeeters the best in the game was that they were the ONLY soldier with Defensive Shot... not even the elves or Isiri had it. Originally DS was reserved for the super elite archers only like Caerowyn and Lorrielle.

 

Give me a few weeks notice and I will be there to watch the waves of goblins crash down upon the other armies.

 

 

I have never really seen the goblins get crushed before. The few games I've seen them played it seemed competitive.

 

I think Spike is close in saying that they could use a little more diversity and even a stronger Faction Ability, but that's true for a few sublists.

 

I also agree with rg3c that that several of the models kind of lost focus for what they are supposed to be. Skeeters should be great archers, because the fluff says they are.

 

I've seen goblins do extremely well before the change to muti-track grunts. I played them a lot right before the change, when I first bought my Reven.

[shakhak]

I think almost everyone can agree short was an awesome ability in the game and should come back. It is sorely missed.