Employment why hast thou forsaken me!

[vejlin]

I think overall here in this thread the message is one of perserverence. Just keep trying, and until your ship comes in, do whatever you can to earn a paycheck.

 

I do agree that one should keep trying (even after landing the job IMO, why not continually look for new opportunities?) and also not necessarily limit the search to things that are close by or stuff you majored in.

 

I don't agree with the whatever you can part. Everyone has their own personal limits that they should try to respect.

[kristof65]

I'd say that there are as many reasons to join the military as there are soldiers and sailors. I certainly didn't do it for love of country - I did it for the opportunity it provided me. Did I like the military? No. Do I regret my decision to join? Not one minute.

 

I hope that almost everyone would at some point consider whether the military is an option for them, simply because I don't think one should rule an opportunity out without a little research. But I'd say the same thing about being a firefighter, police officer, lawyer, teacher, etc.

 

I gotta agree with Kim on respecting your own limits - but I'd also go with the disclaimer of not being too rigid with your own limits in regards to what type of company your field may be employed at. There are a lot of jobs in various fields that aren't where you would expect them to be.

 

When I took a temp job for a week while job hunting to pay my bills, I never expected to find permanent employment - but it turned out that during my last day there, a girl in another department walked into the womens restroom and OD on crystal meth. They asked me to stay as a temp another 2 weeks while they found a replacement for her, once I got into that department, the manager found out I was an electronics tech, and created a new position for me. I probably never would have gone looking for that job in that industry - pure luck, and simple desire to have some money coming in put me in a place where I found a job that was literally created for me.

[Madog Barfog]

For the record, I would like to point out that I'm aware Anthropology isn't a Liberal Arts degree, but it isn't a "hard" (as in applicable, not the opposite of easy) science, either.

 

Of the degrees that are actually useful for a job (engineering, medical, computer sciences [debatable - certifications still are generally worth more] and education) -

 

For once, Joe, I disagree with you. A a former certification training guru, I fail to see how 6 weeks to 6 months of training specific to one IT vendor provides as much worth as 4 years of college. It does hone skills of those already in the field and gives them a real advantage - which it was designed to do - but should not be considered a pathway into the IT field, which is what so many hack schools (cough *New Horizons* cough) sell it as.

[Joe Kutz]

Of the degrees that are actually useful for a job (engineering, medical, computer sciences [debatable - certifications still are generally worth more] and education) -

 

For once, Joe, I disagree with you. A a former certification training guru, I fail to see how 6 weeks to 6 months of training specific to one IT vendor provides as much worth as 4 years of college. It does hone skills of those already in the field and gives them a real advantage - which it was designed to do - but should not be considered a pathway into the IT field, which is what so many hack schools (cough *New Horizons* cough) sell it as.

 

A BS in Computer Science is not worth as much as my CCIE or my OCM certifications. I do have a BS in computer science (as well as an MSI in mechanical engineering and a BS in multidisciplinary studies and a BS in math). For my computer related jobs - the only requirement that was ever necessary was the vendor certifications. Granted Oracle and CISCO are not light weight certs - but they cost a lot less than the degrees did and will almost guarantee you a job with a high 5 figure salary starting...even at this point in the IT industry.

 

I wouldn't expect much from something like an A+ cert or some of the Microsoft Office or other similar certs that are offered from places like New Horizons (I seem to recall being forced to attend a Power Point class there when I was stationed in San Antonio...). However the hard certifications like those from Oracle, CISCO and Novell as well as the more technical certs from Microsoft (MSCE and related MCP certs) will actually prove to be more useful in securing work than a computer science degree.

 

In terms of the military - things are a bit different now than they were when I enlisted many years ago. There is a fair chance at this point that you may be going to an area of the world where people want to shoot you, blow you up or chop your head off. When I enlisted, there was a fair chance that you would get sent overseas, get drunk and bring back a foreign national as a wife. It isn't for everyone, and it isn't something that you should do simply because of the job/education aspects. I do realize that a lot of people do not join for altruistic reasons, however it is something that you should consider long and hard before going along that route.

[DjinnWing]

Sorry, didn't read all the posts, but here are my thoughts:

 

1. Like others have said, 10 - 15 mile drive is not bad at all.

 

2. Get any type of job now (digging ditches, fast food, grocery store, etc). If you have a job while looking for another job, you will be infinitely more hirable. Having an HR degree (and working in a totally different field), I know prospective employers give pause to hiring people with long stretches of unemployment.

 

3. Network. Talk to anyone and anything that may have connections. Where I am from, getting a job is all about WHO you know, not about WHAT you know.

 

4. Positive attitude. You will find it’s a lot easier to find something when you’re not self-loathing (not saying you are, but don’t let yourself).

 

5. Send out resumes. To everyone and everywhere. It’s best if you can show up in person. That way, a prospective employer can put a name with a face, making you more than just a piece of paper.

 

6. Follow up. Keep a journal of where you put in resumes, who you talked to, phone numbers, etc. Make phone calls, shoot off emails, and show up in person.

 

7. Be affirmative (goes with positive attitude). Ask WHEN they would like to have an interview, not IF they want to have an interview. Be mindful of your words and make sure it projects an air of confidence.

 

 

Just some suggestions. I followed those and now I have a job with more than double the pay of my last job, great benefits, etc. Good luck and keep you head up.

[vejlin]

Just wanted to add a little bit more about military maybe not being the best thing to do just for the "free" college.

 

Apparently 18 vets commit suicide each day: http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_3204.shtml add this number to the number of US soldiers killed each day in the various theatres of war and it becomes clear that joining up is dangerous in a very real way. And that's not even counting the many that probably don't kill themselves but still have serious problems that they will carry around with them for the rest of their lives.

 

This all tells me the decision to join up shouldn't be taken lightly at all and IMO isn't on the list of things to try "just to not rule out the opportunity". If you feel like doing it despite the risks for whatever reason then that's great, but I'm guessing far too many join up with the "it's the other guys that'll get killed, not me" illusion.

[kristof65]

This all tells me the decision to join up shouldn't be taken lightly at all and IMO isn't on the list of things to try "just to not rule out the opportunity". If you feel like doing it despite the risks for whatever reason then that's great, but I'm guessing far too many join up with the "it's the other guys that'll get killed, not me" illusion.

Note I'm not saying try it just to find out - I'm just saying don't dismiss it out of hand as an option. I've met people who won't even talk to a recruiter, nor even ask questions about what serving is like to the vets they know or meet - they just automatically think it isn't for them. I was that way - I never even considered the military as an option until a chance encounter with an Army recruiter my senior year. That got me doing some research, and led to a 6.5 yr stint in the Navy. I directly attribute my success in the Navy, and my later success in life to the initial research I did once I realized that the military was a viable option.

 

And now, afterwards, it isn't the 'free' college that is the reason I don't regret it - it goes way beyond that. It's coming to know myself, and realizing without the contract I signed keeping me focused, I wouldn't have made it through college. It's the leadership skills I learned. It's places I got to go, and the people I got to meet. It's accomplishments I can put on a resume today. I came out of the Navy far more prepared for 'real' life than most of the college graduates I know - and I say 'real', because the military is definitely it's own version of life.

 

But it's not for everbody, and with the current world situation, it's even less so. The world was relatively peaceful when I enlisted (84), todays situation is a little more volatile, and I would hope that anyone enlisting would do their research. One of my decisions not to re-enlist in 90 was specifically because of Operation Desert Shield - I knew it was going to get worse, and I opted out.

[tanker22]

I have to agree that caution is probibly the best rout to go when considering the service, especially with the current situation. I joined in early 89 and served for about 12 years in the Army. My first duty station was within long range artillery fire of east Germany. If warshaw pact forces crossed the border my life expectancy in a tank was less than five minites In a combat situation. This never happened so for the most part Germany for me was one big party and drinking fest.

Desert Storm for the most part wasnt that bad either, we knew who and where the bad guys where, it was just a matter of being better than they were and faster on the trigger, and back then we were. After the gutting and librializing of the mid 90's the Army took under the Clinton administration? Cant say I was really impressed by the quality of recuits and active duty people when I left in 01'.

The current situation will put you in this enviroment but worse IMO. Alot of it is reactionary and ambushes and occassional search and destroy missions, at least in the ground forces anyway. Not something I would recommend unless you are prepared mentaly to go into this kind of enviroment. It can be very stressfull and hard on you knowing that at any moment you can die but you learn to tune this kind of thing out after awhile and not think about it, at least I did. You dont have a choice to think like that, if not it will eat you up inside and then you become a liability to everyone around you.

Overall I liked it in the service, but for everything I liked there was 2 or 3 I didn't. Your are not only giving up your freedom for X number of years but a way of life and everything that you take for granted like sleep, comfort, or what ever else you are used to right now.

It will prepare you better for the real world just out of school and give you alot of skills for later in life I think. Leadership, respondsibility and accountability for your actions, self esteem and a sense of pride in yourself for what you have not only endured but what you know you are capible of doing. You will find out what your limitations are and exceed them when the need arises.

 

Not a decission to be taken lightly at all though.

[Madog Barfog]

A BS in Computer Science is not worth as much as my CCIE or my OCM certifications.

 

I can't speak for the OCM, but the CCIE is in a very different league than the certs NH push. I would say most people with a CCIE have a degree, and they all have a significant amount of experience and knowledge.

 

The MCSE is just a few tests you can pass by memorizing answers, and most people pursuing them have little or no IT background. I got 2 of them the honest way, and they've been tremendously helpful, but they still are easier to replace than a college degree.