I know not all gamers are like this, are we?

[Reaperbryan]

The comment that baffles me the most is the one that takes the form, "They're just out for more of our money!" (There are usually more exclamation points, of course.)

 

Game companies are businesses. That means that they are providing product that they hope will sell for more than what it takes to make it (including insurance, rent, heat, accounting, whatever). So, yes, they're out for your money, just like your favorite fiction author, or the star baseball player on your favorite team, or the company that sold you your last car, or the local grocery store.

 

Important tip: That's a good thing.

 

Companies that don't make money close and their employees lose their jobs. And they stop producing all those things that they used to produce for some reason other than to get more of your money. (Whatever those things might be.)

I'd like to point out the outcry over "they're just after more money!" is usually because it's perceived as a cash-grab product with no value-added. That is, nobody complains that we produce 20 new figures a month as "Reaper's just releasing so many figures for the money" because there a perception of value - each figure offers something different that no othe figure did - maybe it's a different stance, weapon, gear, armor, etc, but even if it's a conversion from a previous figure, it's been changed enough to offer some value.

 

Perception of the money-grab aspect of WotC here is that 3.0/3.5 wasn't done giving milk, so to speak, so bringing out a new cash cow is just excessive. When 3.x stopped being profitable, taht's the time to bring out a 4, or so many say.

 

Wow, have you noticed the number of livestock references I've made today? I think I need to get a cheeseburger....

[Rastl]

The comment that baffles me the most is the one that takes the form, "They're just out for more of our money!" (There are usually more exclamation points, of course.)

Don't get me wrong - I understand companies need to make money to stay in business. What this comment says is "They're making changes for no other reason than to drain our wallets!"

 

That's been my position all along. The current version hasn't really been out long enough to warrant a change. 3.0 to 3.5 should have proven that kind of fiasco. And they're still releasing 3.5 material!

 

Here's my version of what happened in the Hasbro boardroom one day.

 

PHB1 - "Hey! Someone pointed out to me that all that stuff our WotC division makes doesn't go obsolete."

 

PHB2 - "You mean our products just sit there and people use them?"

 

PHB1 - "It's like they're taking money our of our pockets! How can something called a 'source book' not need to be replaced quarterly?"

 

PBH2 - "And I hear this online gaming this is really taking off. Those books that we keep putting out don't have subscription fees, do they?"

 

PBH3 - waking up "Subscription fees? Why didn't WotC tell us we could get subscription fees from their books?"

 

PHB1 - "Get those yahoos in here and find out what's going on!"

 

And lo, the WotC division was pulled into the corporate boardroom and shown the way of the subscription fee. Online additional content would now be placed into the cash cow barn and new 'features' would be added so those subscription fees would start pouring in.

 

PHB1 - "That'll show 'em. Why did we even need to tell them that they need to change the entire way their product works just so we could have a guaranteed income?"

[Helltown]

I was on the Wotc official D&D forum trying to get a look at what others were saying about 4e. They were crazy, nigh on fanatically upset about every aspect of the new edition that they had read or heard about, rumor or otherwise. I know that I'm not that bad. I've decided that if I dont like 4e, I'm just going to play Pathfinder and 3.5v. I just can't believe how some people act, even if it is in a post.

 

Are gamers really like this? Short answer: Yes. See the responses this has garnered and all the threads that have sprouted up in regards to 4th Edition since it was announced.

 

- Am I looking forward to it?

Nope.

 

- Why?

Should I get excited about something that the mere mention of earns me growls, scowls, whines, and complaints? Nope.. I'll push the product because it earns me a living, but I'm very glad that I'll be on vacation for a few weeks prior to release day and World Wide D&D Day. It means someone else can be grumped at instead of me. It's not just the forums that are blazing because of Fourth Edition..

[Kheprera]

I will agree with what has been said: Releasing something as "new and improved" only because you slapped a prettier cover on it does not sit well with me. If you're going to improve something, make sure it's more than just fixing the typos and grammar problems your proofreaders missed. That's how I viewed 3.5, which is why I never bought it. D&D 3.0 was a big enough change to warrant my purchase. The "half revised version" was not. The 3.5 also turned me off of D&D and WoTC for a good, long time as well. I'd rather play Hero and would be willing to go back to GURPS or Shadowrun (but not THEIR 4th ed ... *shudder*) than to play D&D again.

 

 

And for what it's worth: I'm super-excited about the Chronoscope, Bryan. SD has been telling me stuff and I'm jumping up and down in excitement. I need to spread the word to some of my friends on CoX.

[Doug's Workshop]

I think the question has been answered!

 

Yes, gamers are like that. Not all of them, true. But this is related to people who argue over how inaccurate the LOTR movies were compared to the original novels. Or how a guisarme really did deserve that weapon speed rating as opposed to the halberd that got the short end of the stick (heh, didn't see that pun until after I typed it). 1st Edition nostalgia . . . .

 

In short, there will always be people who are like that, with almost any hobby. Watch sports fans debate how the goalie missed the field goal in the last basketball game, and how he isn't worth the $1.23 million he's being paid.

 

For the record, I won't be buying 4E because I don't play that much anymore. That'll leave me with more cash to buy Reaper's releases, though! WooHoo!

 

-Doug

[Joe Kutz]

It is perceived as a cash grab...because it is a cash grab.

 

When WotC first took over the property, they left the game alone. Shortly there after they changed everything...although they did leave a conversion path open. Then they changed things again...but didn't really change much of anything. Now they are getting ready to change everything again - and cut off any conversion paths. All in order to sell more of the big 3 books (PHB, DMG and Monstrous Manual).

 

Why is that a cash grab? I can grab my blue box rules and use the monsters and other stuff with 2nd Edition rules without even scratching my noggin. Although there were a lot of changes in the interim - the core mechanics remained more or less the same, and you can go ahead and still use books, monsters, adventures and settings that you have collected over the course of 20 some odd years without having to either compile a lot of converted data or buy new books.

[Sergeant_Crunch]

Yes, gamers are like that. No, not all gamers are like that.

 

As mentioned before go look at any gaming related forum either RPG or wargame and you'll see this behavior. Two things really bring it out: a new version or a perceived or actually lack of support. New versions of whatever trigger that "keeping up with the Jones'" response we seem to have as humans and lack of support means that we love the game but the company doesn't seem to love it as much as we do so by extension the company hates us. OK, so "hates" might be a bit extreme.

[Heisler]

And if you think that the response to WoTC 4e is bad, it doesn't even hold a candle to some of the stuff that goes on when they make single rule change for an historical game let alone a new edition of a game. I have seen a 24 player tournament not even get started because of an argument over the terrain rules (WRG Ancients 7th Edition).

[Yoshi]

I won't be converting to 4e anytime soon. I have way to much money invested into 3.0/3.5 material that will last me for years and still have dozens of neat ideas for charecters that will take awhile to get to play. Besides, my group is munchkin heavy, so they don't really pay attention to the rules regardless of the game system we play.

 

A final thought-the great thing about miniatures, they are never affected by edition changes-I still have minis in my collection from way back in first edition that still get used at the gaming table and survived 2nd, 3.0/3.5 and if we ever switch to 4e, I can still use them.

Thank you Reaper.

[pae]

The reactions and firestorms we got over the initial announcement of our first Pre-Painted Plastic Models, both in public and privately, the reactions on other forums I have visited etc. were nothing short of predictions of apocalypse. People Suggested that within a year we'd stop making metal altogether and would become a 100% plastic house like other companies have done, etc. There was both excitement and panic - and I mean panic. We were traitors to the hobby, we were saviors of the gamers who hated random, we were opportunists who were jumping ship when the other companies were doing the same thing, we were money-grubbing for a share of WotC's pie, we were the only people that really understood what so-and-so wanted out of a model, you name it.

 

 

When I first read the OP, this is exactly what it reminded me of. Back when that happened, part of me was laughing at the people who got all worked up over this, and the other part of me was feeling disgust toward the part of human nature that makes some people think that they are a very special flower and that everything in the world should be done just to appease them.

 

I see the same thing on the World of Warcraft forums every time some change is announced to the game.

 

To sum it all up, I think the most appropriate response I can think of is this:

 

cry moar noobs

[Kheprera]

I call them DOOOOOOM posts.

 

 

 

"DOOOM!! 4 teh change is gr8 and u just want my monies that I get from mommy and daddy. DOOOM!! DOOM is upon us, 4 teh change is gr8 and u r week and I will not give you my monies. I will play WOW and they will phear me and my terible werd use. j00 r |\|07 1337!"

 

 

 

Yeah, come on. The companies have to make money or they'll go the way that Ral Partha, Grenadier, TSR, Avalon Hill, FASA, and the others have gone. At least they're trying to keep up with the changing times.

 

 

Maybe us old geezers need to open up a bit and accept that our kids will not game the same way we did. I know it's hard, and it'll be a cold day in the nine planes before they pry the dice from my mummified fingers, but sometimes the hobby changes. This could be a very good thing.

 

Imagine: Making your character online and the jumping into an instance where, even though continents separate us, we can still run an rp session complete with a map, dungeon, a gm created instance that involves a storyline, and unlike before, we can do it without having to deal with the creepy gamer guy leering at us, or the gamer funk that imbues some game stores, and the food is from our own fridges!

[Aegrist13]

Maybe I'm just too much of a moderate. I started playing 2nd edition in 1989 and enjoyed it. Then 3e came out and it was good( Death to THACO!!!). 3.5 came out and I balked, even stopped playing all together for about 2 years. Then I got into Eberron and upgraded to 3.5 and I absolutly love it. All the class options and feats and new magic-using classes and cool prestige classes made my mouth water. I could finally make the character that fit my concepts. I'm not saying I won't be able to do that in 4e, but I'll never stop playing 3.5.

[Von Carstien]

I must admit I'm in two minds as to whether to go with 4E we've been playing the Age of Worms adventure path for nearly 18 months and were up to the last bit now, and as much as 3.5 goes a bit broken after about 14th thats just something you have to live with to finish the campaign. I don't like this whole dumbing down thing they're doing, personally I don't find 3.5 too complicated, its certainly less complicated than when it was "the lower your armour class is the better" - "oh so 14 armour isn't good" lol the good old days I think our group is planning on giving 4E a run but if were not fond we'll go back to 3.5

[Lars Porsenna]

Imagine: Making your character online and the jumping into an instance where, even though continents separate us, we can still run an rp session complete with a map, dungeon, a gm created instance that involves a storyline, and unlike before, we can do it without having to deal with the creepy gamer guy leering at us, or the gamer funk that imbues some game stores, and the food is from our own fridges!

 

And be bereft of actual human social contact. I think I'll stay a luddite.

 

Damon.

[Lars Porsenna]

I think 4e would have more acceptance if the initial product pitches weren't as condescending as they were. "Your game sux, ours will be sooo much better!" isn't a good way to get me on board. As far as GW is concerned, they are the dead horse that must be beaten whether they deserve it or not. They are the top of their game and the EEEVIL EMPIRE deserving of ridicule, in the same way that Wal-mart is deserving of ridicule, whether its fair or not.

 

There's quite a bit of "gamer elitism" that floats around. I saw quite a bit of it with 3.0. Having my intelligence insulted for liking the game, or thinking THAC0 is a sucky game mechanic isn't especially appealing, or makes me want to consider those other games more. Some of this is borne from the desire to be non-mainstream, seem more discerning, and thus a bit more elitist. Has anyone else noticed this?

 

Damon.