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Game scale/ mini scale


Lord_Crazy_Mike
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just got the core rule book yesterday, and I noticed that it doesnt say the scale of the minis, or the hex scale. like in heavy gear, one hex=50 meters, and in battletech, 1 hex=30 meters. what is it for CAV? if its close to the heavy gear scale, then CAV are incredibly fast. and if it is closer to the Battletech scale, then the ranges dont make any sense.

 

please help...its driving me even more nuts than I already am!

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if its close to the heavy gear scale, then CAV are incredibly fast. and if it is closer to the Battletech scale, then the ranges dont make any sense.

The best option is to not worry about ground scale and time scale.  They don't effect the game mechanics, they don't effect playability, and only cause headaches.  Just enjoy the game; it's that whole "suspension of disbelief" thing required of SF and fantasy games.

 

If you MUST determine a ground scale, throw out the time scale talked about in the fluff; it makes everything else seem screwy.

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I will back angi's view on this don't worry to much about it, there are 2 camps one says vertical and horizontal scale are the same the other says they are different, choose which you want to be in and get back to playing the game. For game play it makes no difference but for the fluff it is quite a factor.

 

Stuart

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The honest, official (last I heard, about a year ago) answer, is *stunned silence*...... "huh?"

 

I agree with Stuart and Abngi. Just ignore it, and assume a CAV is fairly fast considering a man walks 4 in a turn. Units (of measurement, such as seconds and feet) only cause arguments.

 

But for the record, the ranges are far too short in my opinion, although speeds are about right methinks.

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I like the aproximate 18 ft per inch idea. the reason is is that I like to write fiction in thing like this, and I also like trying to "pace" the machines in CAV,HG,Btech in my truck. getting all this info helps me with the accuracy of the writing, and allows me to figure out the MPH I need to go when I go off roading...

 

(And Yes, I do have no life...)

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The only thing that helps me is thinking that those are the effective ranges (not actual ranges) of the weapons.  i.e. Anything farther away(taking longer to get to its target) and the WSO or the AI could kick in and get rid of it somehow.  Maybe the pilot is able to juke out of the path of anything within say 2 seconds, and so he can just dodge anything farther/slower than the effective ranges.  At the very least, scale is a problem, but not for gameplay/mechanics.  Reaper will think of something, maybe.  If not, the game's still fun.
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Yea the speeds are about right for scale.  But you just can't scale ranges in mini games. Well modern or scifi mini games.   The ranges weapons shoot are two great.   Tanks today have effective fireing ranges of one to two miles.   Sit down and fiigure out how many inches that comes out to.   I don't know of anybody with the space to do it.   That said I would like the top speed in mph with out me having to figure it out.  I have done it on some of them.   But ranges just no real reason to do it because you can't scale.
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I like the aproximate 18 ft per inch idea. the reason is is that I like to write fiction in thing like this, and I also like trying to "pace" the machines in CAV,HG,Btech in my truck. getting all this info helps me with the accuracy of the writing, and allows me to figure out the MPH I need to go when I go off roading...

 

(And Yes, I do have no life...)

I identify from the POV of a writer... but otherwise I just do not care.

 

Well I have developed in the recent past a very particular attitude about games... and will read rude... just play and have fun.

 

Now you sound like the more detail oriented... given this, the ranges in CAV are mostly the effective range (and we can have an argument over that one... since they should be a tad longer, especially with some weapons systems, but chalk that to... ahem, playability). Now to game scale, each turn is four seconds and yes it is somewhere in the main book... and well they have covered the inches for ya...

 

As a writer I can see where having the actual MpH (in this case, both HG and Tech use the Metric standard) makes sense and it is necessary... in fact it is essencial... but for game play... it really is not.

 

Welcome to the game by the way and enjoy... I know I like this world for fast game play.

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The Scale of 1/160th, means that 1" of measurement is equal to 160" in RealLife.  This would mean in CAV, 1" is about 13.3 feet.  A six foot tall man would be about .45" (11.25mm)  in height.

 

Time Scale is 4 seconds, if I remember correctly.

 

This would mean:

 

A Dictator moves at about 45mph cross country, 90mph on road.

 

A Infantry Squad runs a 50 Yard Dash in about 12 seconds (3 turns).  Not bad figuring they are carrying a combat load of 60-80lbs (est.), firing their weapons three times and dodging bullets at the same time.  Most standards put the time for the same event at 7-8 seconds.

 

A Kikyu in Hybrid Flight Mode (which is still NoE) moves at about 109 mph.  An Apache helicopter can move about 2.25 times that at maximum level cruise flight, 2000ft above sea level.

 

Weapon Ranges are a little short:  

 

Rifles shoot out to about 50m, generally considered maximum effective range for SMGs nowadays.  If we figure the development of increased levels of armor protection, this is far more realistic.  Many heavy Kevlar Vests will protect the wearer from 5.56 NATO Ball ammo today at all but the shortest ranges.

 

The GkW-12y can reach out and touch someone at about 160m.  Far shorter than the ranges I engaged targets with my M1A1 in the service (1500-2000m).  Considering the same increase in the level of armour development that infantry have, this is not so unrealistic.  My guess is that this is comparable to the ranges Soviet and WARPACT equipment can successfully engage the M1A1 at today without special munitions (under 500m).

 

Indirect fire missiles can reach out to about 270m, again far shorter than even today's light mortars (the M224 60mm Lightwieght Company Mortar System has a maximum effective range of 3490m).  Of course, we have not figured in the time it takes for the round to reach there.  If we presume that missiles are more limited by flight time than actual range, this range is rather respectable.

 

Just my take on the "scale" issue.  Yeah, sometimes I miss engaging targets at 3000m.  But when I start feeling that way, I break out Ogre/GEV or find someone with 1/285th scale modern micro-armor (then a "scale" mile would be 222 inches, gym floor anyone?).

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Hey segway number one, we were visiting family in Cleveland and yes, GHQ is back in business (For those of us who like Micro Armor that is good news)... second segway, we picked up a rule set of modern skirmish... guess what I intend to use for M1-A1s? Despots, I would be asking TOO MUCH for my local FGLS to carry ANY historicals.
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