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Stats: ogre and dictator 2 (70 version)


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Im building an outfit (4000 pts) involving about 12  units:


2 Dictators

2 Sovereighn IIIs


4 Rhinos


1 Challenger

1 Panther

2 Pumas


Now I want to replace the 4 rhinos with Ogres, and the 2 Dictators with the new dictator 2 (70). I dont have much money for a new book...was wondering if I could get the stats for these monsters (the Ogre and The New Dictator) for no charge?


If not...guess I better save up then eh? :O


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Well any advice that would help...Still want 4 ogres and 2 dictators IIs in my group. Critique it, and tell me what I should do to it, and bear in mind I only have the core rule book.


as for the stats?

4 Ogres, huh?



As for the stats, you can get the Ogre's stats via Army Builder.  Just load the demo version and get the latest data files and you're good to go.

Now the '70 Dictator is something you'll have to get the JoR2 for.  I'll give you some of the more pertinent stats as a teaser:

ARM +3

TL +3

ECM +3

2x Gkw-14 +7/+1 at 36" (can overdrive to +9/+2 at 40")

The usual DFMs and IFMs.


How for your army, you'll want to configure it something like this:


2x '70 Dictator






2x Sovereign III


4x Ogre


Now, I didn't even check the points...  This may be a tad more than 4k, so check it for yourself.



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Or stick with the Rhino's which are far superior to the Ogre (sorry Frank but you know it's true) however, I would recommend you take some combined arms elements in you force. Also you want your spotters in the same section as your fire support.



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Firstly, Army Builder does NOT preclude you from the legal obligation to buy the JoR's in the first place. It is, legally and morally, a tool for use once you already have the books. ####, Wolf Lair say that in their own gumph which comes with Army Builder. Just do you know, you'll be breaching copyright and stuff..... in the UK definately, in the US most likely.


Secondly, I'm with Stuart... ditch the Ogres, since the Troll isn't an official upgrade, and use either Rhinos or, my personal choice, the Emperor or Revenant. Both are JoR2 CAV's of the Super class and both have their uses, the Emperor because it's the 'KODA Works' Rhino' and the Revenant because it's really cool :o) Basically, the Emperor will kill stuff just as easily and well, but is around 70 points cheaper. The Revenant is the 'starhawk' of the Super class.... speed and firepower and armour.


I'd also drop the Puma althogether and add another Fire CAV, something like the Spider or Conqueror. Then add it to the Panther and Sovereigns and you're away.


CAV plays best with combined arms, and one of the most effective units is the Tsuiseki. It'll hurt CAV's and things very well, and it's a complete get to kill.


Infantry also rock in CAV, and they're cheap CAV killers and also deathly anything killers, depending on the weapons load.


Stuart and I have actually tried the pure CAV force and a balanced combined arms force, and without min-maxing the roster, a pure CAV force will lose as it simply can't handle the enemy soft units.


My typical, and battle proven, 4k force is something like this:













3 x Heavy Infantry w/ dual mortars


4 x Tsuiseki gunships


I've not worked out the points, but it's darn close to the last two or three 4k units I took into battle.

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If he likes ogres, let him have ogres.  Ogres are over a hundred points cheaper than rhinos, so I wish people would stop comparing the two.


With that in mind, it's a good idea to design a force/strategy around the ogres.  They're a bit on the slow side, so perhaps going heavy on the IDF, forcing your opponenet to come to you, would work.  Or you could just hold back the rest of the army until the ogres are in range, keeping them from getting left behind.



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Jeneki, I have a company of Ogres..... Alpha Company is an 8k formation with 6 Ogres, 2 in each of three sections.


I've used Ogres since I had a model, which was about 3 or 4 months before the official release, and while they are 100 less than a Rhino, they're also not as effective in combat.


A Rhino can fire at something and expect to hurt it, and possibly kill it. This includes Supers as well as Heavy and Light class designs.


The Ogre, on the other hand, has Super class armour and speed, and of course number of DT's, but it has 'Heavy Class' firepower. It's no more powerful than a Dictator in a straight up fight, aside from the extra gun. But those guns, well against a Heavy the Ogre should be hurting, and possibly killing, a CAV even ever it fires thanks to the net +4 modifier (more with TL) and the fact there's three of them. Against a Super however, or anything with +4 armour, then it's no more effective than a Dictator or Wight.


After months of using Ogres and Rhinos, I've come to the conclusion that the Ogre is a competent Heavy and Light chassis killer, and it can withstand all the defensive fire they can throw at it, aside from overdriven gauss cannons :o) the Rhino, well it's a Hard target masticator.... it'll eat anything he can get his hands on and then some, he just needs to get into range, which takes a little longer than the Ogre.


The Centurion... Stuart, myself and a couple of other friends who play CAV on a regular basis have, taking one look at the stats, classified it as a Heavy killer just like the Ogre. And likewise, we've classified the Emperor as a Super killer like the Rhino. Course, I'll have to see them in action before I can make a proper accessment but that seems to fit the stats well.


The Thunderbird, well it's a REALLY cheap Heavy killing Super (cos you remove the IFM's to not waste sooooo many points) but even then it's still not really much cop, or you could remove the Primary armament and use it as a Spotter for a section of dual heavy mortar crunchies. Again, that's my first thoughts on it.


The Revenant, well this one's much harder to classify. It's got good speed (14MM with upgrade) and it's got good armour and good weapons. This one I'm really interested in, as it has so much potential.


If someone wants to use Ogres then I would be the last person to stop them, however I'd also be the first person to advise them on better ways to spend their points.


Course, the Ogre is still a really cute design, and it's a shame to not have one or three in an army... just for looks :o)

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While the discussion of which unit is important for the game, I don't think it's a good idea to put down every new player's favorite unit.


"Hi I'm new to CAV, my favorite unit is X"


"X sucks, dump it!  Instead put in nothing but Rhino's, Tsuiseki's, 70's dictators, and chainlock mortars.  Everything else sucks!"


Soon the game becomes very repetitive and boring due to everyone playing the same thing.


A better idea would be to help the player design a strategy around that unit.  Let them play their own way.

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Hmmm...I thank you for all the good advice. You guys do have a major point in the fact that CAV is a combined arms game.


During the last three years I played heavy gear, and learned a valuable lesson: Be Very Afraid Of Infantry Using anti-armor weapons! In HG, combined arms was very imperitave to winning. I always ran a gear based northern army, but having field artillery and fast assault tanks were also incorperated into my strategy...those and jet pack infantry.


The fast attack tanks and the fast gears I would send forth and probe the enemy, and they would spot for artillery. the rest of the gears would act as shock troops, then retreat, also spotting for the artilery. Now then...in the midst of all this, an apc or 2 charges into the fray, deploying skads of jet pack wearing anti armor infantry, and that usually shoots any reactionary strategy to pieces. then, the entire army, save for the artillery, moves forward at once, creating a massive blitzkrieg. whatever is left from both sides will just have to slug it out after that.


In CAV I am slowly building a 12000 point force,with each squadron being about 4000 points. the force I posted was just the first one. Its main purpose is to act as, well, shock/assault troopers. is there any way I can make this squadron fit that role even more?


Oh yeah on the 70s Dictators: HOLY elf! was definatly not expecting the new guass stats to be that good...Maybe I'll drop 3 ogres and replace them with 70s Dictator, and drop the other 2 70s dictators for spotters or maybe the original Dic. And Yeah I might configure my army the way Black Lightning suggested...course with a slight mod if its over 4000pts


any other ideas? (Must...Have...More...)

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Mike (the crazy noble kind), your idea sounds familiar..... wait, it's on the tip of my tounge.....I'm almost there.... I have it! I know where I've seen a 45k army built to do that....


...my very own Bad Blood is designed to do just that.


To that end I have a company of 'assault sections' with two Ogres in each and they're designed to be the panzers in the blitzkrieg. They stomp forward and kill anything in their path.


The company (6 sections) currently weighs in at 8k, but I'm planning on adding some other units to it... more Rhinos and Emperors and some Revenants and a Thunderbird and a couple of Centurions. It'll be around 10k probably.


Your stragegy is a good one, and the same one I've adopted. It's tough to do in a small unit (company or smaller) but a Battalion is easy to do :o)


Jeff, I agree. However, when someone asks for advice, I tend to give it. If they then say, "I'm keeping the Blah" then I'll help them work them into their army, as we all would. Guess we should meld the two together somewhat :o)

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It's tough to do in a small unit (company or smaller) but a Battalion is easy to do :o)


In Heavy Gear the smallest force I actually succeeded in using such tactics was around 15 models:

A strike team (2 med class gears, 1 Upgraded med Class, 2 Heavy class)

A FS Team (2 med class, 1 Heavy, 2 Upgraded Assault)

And an Upgraded Recon Group (4 upgraded lights, 1 upgraded heavy) and depending on whether I wanted to spend points on it, a really badazz Light gear with skadz of Electronics on it (Like more than it could effectivly use...)


In Battletech, I always Had teammates (other players), and they usually ran mixed lances, and we'd always coordinate our attack so I could charge in and cause as much madness as possible...I think we used like 3 of each class of mech...but that was 4 years ago.


However, I stopped doing that when people started using Infantry and Minefields...I had the highest casualty rate then...

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