psyberwolfe1 Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 So I was reading my issue of White Dwarf 342 that came in last night. These new GW washes seem interesting because they are supposed to be paint, and not ink. An interesting thought struck me while I was looking at the pictures of their uses. Could I mix up a something similar using only paint and water? An entire bottle of pre-mixed wash would be useful especially for "sparmytop" painting. If this is possible, what kind of ratio of paint to water would I be looking at? Would this break down the binder or vehicle the pigment is suspended in? Should I use airbrush medium as my thinner? The idea is quite tantalizing, mainly because when painting tanks it would take some of the pressure out of completely finishing the wash/ glaze step I am working on. Also I like the thought of washes that are greater in color range than the 6 available GW washes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunchBox Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 So I was reading my issue of White Dwarf 342 that came in last night. These new GW washes seem interesting because they are supposed to be paint, and not ink. An interesting thought struck me while I was looking at the pictures of their uses. Could I mix up a something similar using only paint and water? An entire bottle of pre-mixed wash would be useful especially for "sparmytop" painting. If this is possible, what kind of ratio of paint to water would I be looking at? Would this break down the binder or vehicle the pigment is suspended in? Should I use airbrush medium as my thinner? The idea is quite tantalizing, mainly because when painting tanks it would take some of the pressure out of completely finishing the wash/ glaze step I am working on. Also I like the thought of washes that are greater in color range than the 6 available GW washes. Damn cheap Texans always trying to save a buck... OK, seriously, the short answer is yes. You'll need to dillute the paint roughly half and half, and add a tiny little drop of something like "Future" brand floor wax. No...I'm not kidding. It breaks the surface tension a little, allowing the wash to flow easily into the recesses, and low spots, as it magically goes away from your highlights. In St. Louis we called it "wonder wash". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixminis Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 And while I've used the future trick plenty of times (and still do for armies), check with each paint brand and/or the specific color you want to use before you do a huge batch... some paints do not respond well to future and you'll want to use a flow improver, or a brush on sealer as your surface tension reducer instead... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vutpakdi Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 My recipe for "magic wash" is 1 part paint (usually one of the liners, brown being the most commonly used), 3 parts matte medium, and 3 parts water. Dilute slightly if needed. I did swing by a Games Workshop store recently in order to pick up a bottle of their new wash to try it out. From what I've seen online and in their dried "samples", the wash does seem like a variant of the magic wash recipe. Based on the sample sprues, seems like the result isn't as dark as if I were to do a magic wash with the liner colors. I haven't had a chance to really try the bottle yet, but I'll report on the results when I do. Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunchBox Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 So flow improver acts similarly to 'future'? I didn't know that...in fact, I have 4 different additives, and I have no idea how to use any of them...or even if I want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyberwolfe1 Posted June 21, 2008 Author Share Posted June 21, 2008 Maybe the godess of all things painty (Anne) will respond here, but is the flow improver water conditioner the same as flow improver? I am not big on using floorwax but I'll use one of my many liquitex additives. You see I'm looking for a dead matte look over a metallic. I have matte medium and every time I use it the paint comes out shiny, so am I using it wrong? Hmm must investigate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Landt Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Please don't put floor wax into your Reaper Master Series paints. MSPs already come with some flow improver in them, and thin fine with just water. If you are making a wash, I would recommend adding more flow improver, but floor wax is not an appropriate additive for MSPs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rastl Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 I use glaze medium meant for craft paints. Pretty much the same ratio as everyone else: 3:3:1 glaze:water:paint/liner Works like a champ. I've done larger batches using matte varnish and craft paints for terrain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutebutpsycho Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 I have a 'gunk' that I use when thinning out paints. It was made of two parts water, one part flow improver, one part drying retarder. I mix a tiny bit of this in with the paint, add liberal water, and have a beautiful wash consistancy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyberwolfe1 Posted June 21, 2008 Author Share Posted June 21, 2008 Round one of making ta bottle of wash worked real well, however too thin and also all the pigment is at the bottom of the bottle now. Time to refine. I think I'm going to mix up an entire bottle of flow aid and then play with that plus paint. BTW Creatix airbrush paint not good for this application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaper User Vaitalla Posted June 24, 2008 Reaper User Share Posted June 24, 2008 As Gus says, Future and MSP's do not work well together (leading to my favorite quote of me: "No, I will NOT reformulate MY paint line to play nice with YOUR floor wax!"). Lunchbox, the various flow improvers available on the art market accomplish the breaking down of surface tension you see with Future (thus the name, flow improver). And they do it without the toxicity! Huzzah! Guess you can't tell I'm not a huge fan of floor wax... Remember that washes are actually heavier in body (more paint) than a glaze. To find the right ratio, just grab a palette or a tile or plastic blister pack top and mix a wash that works for you. Make a note of how many drops of paint to water/flow improver/other stuff and go from there to mix a bigger batch. --Anne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Kutz Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 One quick note - the key to the future isn't so much its work as a flow improver, rather a cheap and readily available source of acrylic resin. Normally a bottle of future costs about 1/2 to 1/4 the same sized bottle of artist's acrylic medium (even more so when you are working with the dropper bottles of medium). The flow improver which they use to self level the future and get into cracks in the floor and what not is an added benefit of the medium...the fragrance is a minor annoyance. As far as I know, there isn't anything which is inherently toxic in Future. While it might not qualify for the "Kid Friendly" label - it isn't dangerous by any stretch...by itself. Mix it with ammonia or bleach though and you have a different issue (one of the reasons I don't care to mix Windex with my paints...I like my Future). Mixed with either of those chemicals, and you get phosphine gas...bad stuff unless you are killing roaches or fumigating an orchard. In a sealed container mixed with ammonia and the proper expansion area you can actually have spontaneous combustion (fun stuff). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyberwolfe1 Posted June 25, 2008 Author Share Posted June 25, 2008 Never fear. No floor wax is near my paints nor ever will be. Vaitalla what are your proportions for washes and glazes. I ask so I can compare my ratio to yours. Also my black MSP is thickening in the bottle. What would you suggest I thin it with? I forgot to mention that this thickening seems to be happening with my dimple top MSPs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaper User Vaitalla Posted June 25, 2008 Reaper User Share Posted June 25, 2008 If your paint is thickening, all you need to thin it with is water. If you notice extreme graininess when you thin it, then you may have a bottle which got frozen in transport...but if it has been fine up until now then you are just getting a natural thickening, just add a touch of water. How much paint out of that bottle have you used, and how old is the bottle? We went back to the dimple-tops a while back so that sadly does not help me pinpoint a timeframe. Darn it, Joe! Future is EVIL! Don't you hit me with a rational argument, now! --Anne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Sundseth Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 For reference (and in support of Joe's point), here's an MSDS for Future Premium Floor Finish. The MSDS lists the ingredients. Of course, now I'm wondering why the MSPs don't work with Future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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