Priming disaster

[Pyreos]

Being the miser I am, I went out and bought some of that $.98 a can car primer for my minis. It's worked well in the past, but for some reason it keeps leaving a rough surface once I prime my minis. The result looks as if little chunks of dust or or sawdust were in the air when I did it, but I've done this indoors, outdoors and every way I can think. Can anyone give suggestions on what may be going wrong here? It's a new can and has been kept indoors at the suggested termerature, so I'm out of ideas. THanks all.

[drjsallison]

All paint is made of solid pigments. Spray paint is no exception. There are many grades of spray primer from a standard "grit" to ultra fine. Many basic primers like Krylon are intended for large, porous surfaces. Using them on smooth finishes and tiny minis tend to give you the oppertunity to see just how coarse they really are. The thicker the layer, the less noticeable it becomes. Unfortunately, at thet point, the fine details of a mini become obscured.

 

There are much better alternatives. Tamiya makes an amazing fine surface primer geared specifically toward the scale modeler and works wonders on minis. There are also some high end automotive grade spray primers that work well. Airbrush paint is typically fine and will work as well. Unfortunately there is no secret to getting cheap primer to perform well on a consistant basis. You really do get what you pay for. Take the loss and start anew with a primer geared more specifically to fine surface work.

[Pyreos]

That seems to be just what I needed. Thanks alot.

[Mclimbin]

Is the surface just rough? Or are details being obscured?

 

If the surface is rough, that is not necessarily a bad thing. If it's a little gritty, that is fine, that is what we call "tooth." That makes the paint adhere better. If you over primer your mini, so that it is totally white and smooth, the paint will actually not adhere as well. Lots of people over-prime their minis, including myself up until a couple of weeks ago, when a much better painter than I pointed out that it was not necessary.

 

If details are getting obscured, or if the paint is spewing out big chunks, that is a different story. Have you tried laying some paint on the minis yet? They might be ok.

[mercoutlaw]

Tell you what, I use the Wal-Mart Cheap stuff and Krylon, and I will tell you I have never had a problem. Something as simple as washing off the model and making sure not to prime when it's humid is the key. There is no need to pay excessive prices for some big brand name. There is an artist over at CSO for Battletech that paints all of his minis with Americana paints that cost a buck at most hobby stores... http://www.camospecs.com/Artists.asp?ArtistID=60 When you get things down the way you want with a little bit of experimentation you will find you can enjoy this hobby inexpesively.

[All-Terrain Monkey]

There is no need to pay excessive prices for some big brand name.

 

I'd agree with you up and until a point, mercoutlaw, but I think you should qualify the above statements. If you're painting for tabletop use then I agree, but if you're aiming for display quality painting having good materials is necessary. The painter you mentioned basecoats and lines his models, and does do some layering on the cockpits and glass, but you can see the layers and transitions clearly on the areas that had layering done. It's very, very difficult to layer or blend smoothly with craft paints, and very, very easy to with miniatures paints. Now, don't get me wrong; those are very clean, sharp-looking models, but if someone's aiming for pushing their painting to the next level the tools can get in the way.

 

Back to the OP, if it's grainy or bumpy one thing you can try is using a good, stiff-bristled toothbrush on your miniature after you prime it. If there are large clumps due to primer drying before it hits the miniature you can sometimes scrub them off with a brush, and then go back with a light coat of a brush-on primer to smooth it all down.

[morganm]

Tell you what, I use the Wal-Mart Cheap stuff and Krylon, and I will tell you I have never had a problem. Something as simple as washing off the model and making sure not to prime when it's humid is the key. There is no need to pay excessive prices for some big brand name. There is an artist over at CSO for Battletech that paints all of his minis with Americana paints that cost a buck at most hobby stores... http://www.camospecs.com/Artists.asp?ArtistID=60 When you get things down the way you want with a little bit of experimentation you will find you can enjoy this hobby inexpesively.

 

I bought the cheap Krylon gray sandable primer and it comes out very grainy. I'm not very happy with it.

[Gimp]

An artist works within the confines of their tools, but the artist does the art.

 

Better tools makes the job easier, and lets the artist concentrate more on their art.

 

Lesser tools makes the job harder for high end work, but can be quite acceptable for people not striving for complete excellence.

 

Every painter has to decide how they want to proceed. What quality in painting is acceptable for you? How much effort do you want to go through to get that quality? How much can you afford for the tools to do the job you want to do?

 

You can get good quality from simple primers, paints, and brushes, but you'll have to work a lot harder for great quality.

 

I spoil myself with Reaper paints, but then, they're also one of the best deals around for good quality miniatures paints, and have an excellent palette of colors. Paint quality is the first hurdle a painter has to work against for better results, but also one of the easiest to get past.

 

I do a lot of work with Krylon spray primer and generic model brushes, simply because I spend a lot of time showing new painters that it doesn't have to be hard or expensive to get good results, and they can grow their tools and techniques as much as they want from there.

 

I haven't won more than a couple of local painting competitions, but I have helped get a lot of people painting miniatures and enjoying the hobby. Since I paint for fun and to make armies for wargames, I'm quite happy with those results. I've got enough issues to keep me from becoming a high level painter I'm content being a good painter that teaches.

 

I've got a lot of respect for the high end painters out there, and will encourage anyone who wants to push themselves that hard; but a painter doesn't need the expense of the high end tools if they don't want to go to the extremes for the job.

[mercoutlaw]

I use Reaper, P3 and to a lesser extent now, some GW. I agree that there are definite perks to some products over others, but I also know that I have seen amazing work done with products I would not have expected. Also, style is huge! Some people don't go for the blended work. Some people, especially for models like CBT, CAV and other Vehicle heavy games want harder lines and blending isn't the look they go for, whereas in Warlord or other humanoid like models one may want the blended look. My only point was that sometimes there is an elitist attitude that if you don't spend tons of cash on a product that you cannot create quality work. As far as the primer goes, I have used many. I like the Ultra Flat Black Krylon. It is smooth and very solid but doesn't fill the cracks well, so I either put a light coat of cheap primer on or brush in the missing areas. I respect all of your opinions, I was merely stating my experiences. I think some of us have one bad product experience and then give up and spend unnecessarily, that's all.

[kristof65]

Not disagreeing with you merc, however, there are two areas in which I think that it can benefit people to overspend until they get their techniques down. Those are primers and brushes.

 

Putting on a good quality spray primer coat can be a tricky process, and better primers make it an easier process. I know at least one good painter who never was able to master using a spray primer - every time he tried, no matter what the product, he managed to mess up the mini.

 

Since the primer is the base on which everything else sits, a good quality is important - I'd personally recommend to any new painter that they're better off to spend the money on the Tamiya primer until they are comfortable with that, then experiment with other primers to find what they're happy with.

[morganm]

I use Reaper, P3 and to a lesser extent now, some GW. I agree that there are definite perks to some products over others, but I also know that I have seen amazing work done with products I would not have expected. Also, style is huge! Some people don't go for the blended work. Some people, especially for models like CBT, CAV and other Vehicle heavy games want harder lines and blending isn't the look they go for, whereas in Warlord or other humanoid like models one may want the blended look. My only point was that sometimes there is an elitist attitude that if you don't spend tons of cash on a product that you cannot create quality work. As far as the primer goes, I have used many. I like the Ultra Flat Black Krylon. It is smooth and very solid but doesn't fill the cracks well, so I either put a light coat of cheap primer on or brush in the missing areas. I respect all of your opinions, I was merely stating my experiences. I think some of us have one bad product experience and then give up and spend unnecessarily, that's all.

 

I know I certainly respect your opinion as well :)

 

I just am not happy with the Krylon Gray Sandable primer. Was more happy with GW's Flat Black but it's not a primer.

 

I'm just going for table top quality =^.^=

[kristof65]

I like Armoury's primers myself. I'm not to thrilled with the Krylon primers either, and I've never like the GW sprays. I just tried the Duplicolor fine primer, and I've got mixed feelings about it - it's about the same price as the Armoury's primers, and the quality is good, but I'm having issues with the spray pattern of the nozzle. Have to try another can to see if that's by design or a fluke.

 

Right now, the only advantage the Duplicolor really has over the Armoury stuff for me is availability - I've got four auto parts stores within 3 miles that carry it and are open late, while the nearest place carrying the Armoury stuff is a hobby shop about 10 miles away.

[mercoutlaw]

Not disagreeing with you merc, however, there are two areas in which I think that it can benefit people to overspend until they get their techniques down. Those are primers and brushes.

 

Putting on a good quality spray primer coat can be a tricky process, and better primers make it an easier process. I know at least one good painter who never was able to master using a spray primer - every time he tried, no matter what the product, he managed to mess up the mini.

 

Since the primer is the base on which everything else sits, a good quality is important - I'd personally recommend to any new painter that they're better off to spend the money on the Tamiya primer until they are comfortable with that, then experiment with other primers to find what they're happy with.

 

 

I have never tried the Tamiya, I didn't know they made one until this post so I can't speak intelligently on that, but I will pick some up and try it.

As far as brushes go, I couldn't agree with you more! Good brushes are essesntial and can be expensive. A good brush is the difference between deer hunting with a rifle and a slingshot. I did find some very nice detail brushes at Michael's last week that I picked up for a couple of bucks a pop and am pretty impressed, but that is a rarity!

[eastman]

I like Armoury's primers myself. I'm not to thrilled with the Krylon primers either, and I've never like the GW sprays. I just tried the Duplicolor fine primer, and I've got mixed feelings about it - it's about the same price as the Armoury's primers, and the quality is good, but I'm having issues with the spray pattern of the nozzle. Have to try another can to see if that's by design or a fluke.

 

Right now, the only advantage the Duplicolor really has over the Armoury stuff for me is availability - I've got four auto parts stores within 3 miles that carry it and are open late, while the nearest place carrying the Armoury stuff is a hobby shop about 10 miles away.

 

Duplicolor Sandable White is my Primer of Choice. I like it better than Tamiya. The nozzle is designed to spray a fan pattern, rather than a circle (it can be rotated to spray either horizontal or vertical). I don't get the fuzzies from Duplicolor that I often get with Armory.

[Pyreos]

Wow, this thread kindof exploded. To comment on a few things, it was not humid while I was priming ( I live in colorado : /), this current batch of minis is for tabletop, but the texture of the primer was messing with my paintflow, and I have trouble getting the paints to do what I want normally. I ended up breaking down and buying the Tamiya, and I must say I'm greatly impressed. Smooth coat and an excellently fast dry, there's nothing wrong with it other than the can being a little small. It was about $6 at my local hobby store.