Priming disaster

[vutpakdi]

I like the very fine surface of the Tamiya, but I dislike the price and availability issues.

 

Duplicolor is my primer of choice for spray can priming. Not as smooth of a surface as the Tamiya, but often smooth enough.

 

But, that said, I mostly use my airbrush these days for priming. I get a very good surface, it's cheaper overall, no worrying about temperature or humidity, and I worry less about health issues. But, using an airbrush is more time consuming, and the startup costs are significant (and why I didn't go to GenCon this year. Darn Jester to heck for giving me the airbrush bug. ).

 

No matter what method that you use, keeping a bottle of brush on primer handy will be useful for touchups.

 

Ron

[Helltown]

I've probably tried about eight or nine different primers in the past year because the opportunity presented itself to use something other than Armory or the el cheapo spray from Wal-Mart. Out of all those primers, the ones I like the best were the Gunze spray primers. I don't use them very often because they're on the expensive side, but Mr. White Surfacer has to be the nicest primer I've tried to date for spray primers.

 

Lately, I've been using the Master Series brush primer because I'm not priming more than maybe one figure at a time so I haven't been using spray primers at all.

[Bruunwald]

I've always had at least a little difficulty with white primers in general.

 

The old Armory white primer used to chunk up, too. Little speckly bumps all over everything. Alternatively, it would come out runny and dry hard in clumps. Krylon seems to have redesigned their look and their spraying mechanism, but the white still comes out bumpy. What I've found lately, is that it does not give a lot of coverage if you spray in a left-to-right motion, but more so if you spray up and down.

 

One thing for sure, is that you have to find the right balance with white primer; the right distance, the right concentration. And it's difficult. Too close and too long a burst and it obscures everything. Too short or too far and it gets chunky.

 

The grey Krylon now also seems to need an up-and-down motion to get coverage, but is otherwise still smooth on the mini. I also seem to be getting better coverage on the underside of the mini than before. However, the new mechanism/packaging seems to have affected the volume of the contents. After priming just a few guys this past week, I already seem almost ready for a new can.

[morganm]

I had issues with coverage and the Krylon Gray also. You noted it was smooth and I've seen just the oposite. I had to do about 3 coats just to get coverage of a mini. This was left - right sweeps at a bout 6 - 8 inches distance. Maybe that's why mine turned out so grainy?

 

Wonder if my results are more a function of technique rather than product? =/

 

I thought spray on was supposed to be 'quick and easy'. The more I fuss with them the more I feel like just buying some brush on... at least I'd be "painting" more often; even it if is just painting on primer =)

[GreyHorde]

Wonder if my results are more a function of technique rather than product? =/

Could be, but it could be a lot of things. Humidity and temp play their parts regardless of the color of the primer. Age of the contents of the can, quality of the product, quality control at the manufacturer, shipping and storage conditions, amount of shaking, nozzle clogging...and not all of these can easily be quantified and recorded for future reference. Experience helps, but sometimes if you've tried everything you can think of, you just gotta pitch it and try something else. That's how I went through about a dozen versions of spray primer before I settled on the ones I use now.

 

I thought spray on was supposed to be 'quick and easy'. The more I fuss with them the more I feel like just buying some brush on... at least I'd be "painting" more often; even it if is just painting on primer =)

The sprays are fine for doing a lot of tabletop pieces quickly, when the results don't have to be absolutely perfect under magnification. But for an individual piece, display or a tabletop leader that really needs the smooth, consistent coat, brush-on is an excellent, all-weather choice. Plus, yes, there's actually something to that thought about "painting", even if it's just primer. You're right, you're still painting, still putting a type of paint on the mini with a brush. You still get textural feedback from the surfaces, you learn all the nooks & crannies of a sculpt, figure out the angles of the brush to get those hard-to-reach places, all before you have to worry about the neatness of every stroke. It helps you learn the mini, plan where to start and develop a little muscle memory in the process, possibly making the actual painting go faster and more smoothly.

[Edohotep]

Out of all those primers, the ones I like the best were the Gunze spray primers. I don't use them very often because they're on the expensive side, but Mr. White Surfacer has to be the nicest primer I've tried to date for spray primers.

 

I agree. And having dug up a year old can of Krylon primer to use for some bulk painting, it seems that brand has a terrible problem of resulting in a gritty coat when the cans aren't used within a few months from the purchase date. And that's after shaking up the can for a bit and putting it under hot water from the tap to get the can to give me an even spray. Mr. Surfacer (spray can version) never had problems.

 

What I need are those paint can caps that the graffiti artists uses to focus the paint. That might help.

[Whizard Hlavaz]

While I agree that one should use the best materials available that one can afford (especially with brushes), I've found primer to be one area in which I can skimp and still achieve very satisfactory results. Yes, I use Tamiya on most of my comp pieces, but it's very expensive for the little you get (and prices just went up due to new fed regulations here in the U.S.). I don't think learners need spend that kind of money on models they may well scrub clean. Krylon primer produces very usable results if care is taken -- so much so that it can be used for comp models, too. And yes -- I've used it for such, but care is key.

 

Here's the deal.

 

1.) Humidity -- key factor. The lower the humidity, the better. But you say this is not your issue in Colorado.

2.) Temperature -- the warmer, the better. Especially during curing. I put my models under lamps to keep them warm (not hot) while curing (this trick can be used with practice in highly humid environments. I've primed in the rain using it.) An incandescent bulb in a hood a foot above the mini is all that's required. Just steady warm light to raise the air temp a bit.

3.) Shake the can. Often. Overly much. Two minutes before priming and once after every pass on the model. Seriously -- two minutes vigorously. The bottoms of my primer cans are dented from the amount of shaking they receive. No exaggeration. Work those muscles.

4.) Pressurize the can using warm/hot water. Sit it in a bowl of warm water to warm the contents and increase internal pressure. Better yet, run it under water, shake, run again, shake, repeat. Not scalding hot. You don't want to pop the seals or create an explosion of pressure on release, but good and warm. This is especially important in cold weather.

5.) Light coats and many. Don't prime too much at once. Wet on wet primer produces grain. Let each light coat dry before adding another. Priming requires time. You can't rush. It can take me a couple hours between coats, especially in colder/humid weather. And don't prime too many minis or too much surface at once without repressurizing the can. Each release of the can cools its internal contents and reduces pressure. Rewarm if you're using the can a lot at once.

6.) Start spraying off the mini and sweep across. Don't begin by aiming at the mini. You can get partially dried and clumpy primer from the nozzle. Aim away from the mini, start spraying, sweep across @ about 6 inches from surface, spray off other side, stop. Turn mini to a new angle. Shake can. Begin again.

 

That's my advice. Good luck. Krylon is a fine product. You can achieve quite satisfactory results using it. Just take your time and be thorough in applying the above.

[Kang]

While I agree that one should use the best materials available that one can afford (especially with brushes), I've found primer to be one area in which I can skimp and still achieve very satisfactory results. Yes, I use Tamiya on most of my comp pieces, but it's very expensive for the little you get (and prices just went up due to new fed regulations here in the U.S.). I don't think learners need spend that kind of money on models they may well scrub clean. Krylon primer produces very usable results if care is taken -- so much so that it can be used for comp models, too. And yes -- I've used it for such, but care is key.

 

Here's the deal.

 

1.) Humidity -- key factor. The lower the humidity, the better. But you say this is not your issue in Colorado.

2.) Temperature -- the warmer, the better. Especially during curing. I put my models under lamps to keep them warm (not hot) while curing (this trick can be used with practice in highly humid environments. I've primed in the rain using it.) An incandescent bulb in a hood a foot above the mini is all that's required. Just steady warm light to raise the air temp a bit.

3.) Shake the can. Often. Overly much. Two minutes before priming and once after every pass on the model. Seriously -- two minutes vigorously. The bottoms of my primer cans are dented from the amount of shaking they receive. No exaggeration. Work those muscles.

4.) Pressurize the can using warm/hot water. Sit it in a bowl of warm water to warm the contents and increase internal pressure. Better yet, run it under water, shake, run again, shake, repeat. Not scalding hot. You don't want to pop the seals or create an explosion of pressure on release, but good and warm. This is especially important in cold weather.

5.) Light coats and many. Don't prime too much at once. Wet on wet primer produces grain. Let each light coat dry before adding another. Priming requires time. You can't rush. It can take me a couple hours between coats, especially in colder/humid weather. And don't prime too many minis or too much surface at once without repressurizing the can. Each release of the can cools its internal contents and reduces pressure. Rewarm if you're using the can a lot at once.

6.) Start spraying off the mini and sweep across. Don't begin by aiming at the mini. You can get partially dried and clumpy primer from the nozzle. Aim away from the mini, start spraying, sweep across @ about 6 inches from surface, spray off other side, stop. Turn mini to a new angle. Shake can. Begin again.

 

That's my advice. Good luck. Krylon is a fine product. You can achieve quite satisfactory results using it. Just take your time and be thorough in applying the above.

I'm going to try this for sure if/when I ever get my fiasco of a rubber toy conversion project back on track - pretty sure it'll need repriming. Questions though - in step 6, would you wait for the first spray-pass to dry before spraying again from another angle? That whole wet-on-wet primer = clumps thing... Or is that just something to do before giving the whole mini a second coat? Or do you maybe turn it far enough that you're not re-spraying any still-wet areas with pass #2?

 

How many coats do you use when you apply primer this way?

 

Great priming tips, Whiz! Thanks,

 

Kang

[Doug Sundseth]

One other spray-priming tip that I haven't seen in this thread:

 

When you finish with a priming session, invert the can and spray until no paint is coming out. This nearly eliminates clogging of the nozzle, which is the biggest reason for inconsistent results from spray cans.

[Frankthedm]

Being the miser I am, I went out and bought some of that $.98 a can car primer for my minis. It's worked well in the past, but for some reason it keeps leaving a rough surface once I prime my minis. The result looks as if little chunks of dust or or sawdust were in the air when I did it, but I've done this indoors, outdoors and every way I can think. Can anyone give suggestions on what may be going wrong here? It's a new can and has been kept indoors at the suggested termerature, so I'm out of ideas. THanks all.

Sounds like the cheap can was clogged or there was a bad mix of primer / propellant agents.

 

1. If there is a partial clog in a spay primer can, it will go on super thick and crusty. this is why the can label says ""Hold upside down and spray for a few seconds" to clear the spray nozzle after you use it. If a can of primer works at first, then goes bad, this may be the case.

 

2. If the can has the wrong proportion of primer / propellant agents, the same effect will be had. There is a chance of this happening with any can, I had a bad can of Gouge Workshop ruin an Epic titan half a decade back.

 

3. Some Sandable primers go on real thick, but the can will be up front about this.

 

Don't let others fool you, the cheap stuff works. i have had fine results with $1 primer cans from BIG LOTS.

[Whizard Hlavaz]

Questions though - in step 6, would you wait for the first spray-pass to dry before spraying again from another angle? That whole wet-on-wet primer = clumps thing... Or is that just something to do before giving the whole mini a second coat? Or do you maybe turn it far enough that you're not re-spraying any still-wet areas with pass #2?

 

How many coats do you use when you apply primer this way?

 

Good questions, Kang. Let me clarify.

 

I generally spray each "face" of the mini to create a complete "coat". So the front straight-on, shake, shake, shake, the left side, shake, shake, shake, the rear... the right side... the top. This is a coat for me. It's important to note that each pass is light. No pools. Try to avoid a "wet" sheen. Just spritz each side to complete a coat. I then let this sit and dry... maybe five minutes in the summer sun, maybe an hour under a light in the winter. Then i begin again, but this time from an angle from below... front... shake... side... shake... etc. Again... five minutes in the summer sun... Finally, I do a "touch up" or two.

 

The point is I allow an entire "coat" to dry thoroughly before adding the next. After the first coat, I'll see a lot of metal showing through. After the second, much less. Finally, my touch-up coat(s) finish off the rest. You actually don't have to completely cover the entire mini. Some metal showing through is fine. But that's up to you.

 

By wet-on-wet primer that produces grit I mean a wet sheen on a wet sheen is bad. Or wet primer on tacky primer is bad. The coat below will gas out too much humidity and will prouduce grit without baking under a lamp or hairdryer. The coat you prime over should be dry to the touch. Not tacky. You'll learn to recognize when it's dry by sight, but in the beginning try to err on the side of caution. There's no such thing as "too dry" a coat when re-priming.

 

And listen to Doug S. That's an important tip. Clear your nozzles to avoid dry clumps and clinging webs that throw grit.

 

Hope that all helps. Just remember - time and dry heat are your friends when priming.

[pae]

So Darin, do you actually paint after priming? Or do you just prime these days?

 

[Helltown]

So Darin, do you actually paint after priming? Or do you just prime these days?

 

 

Didn't someone prep n' prime your class minis at ReaperCon for you, Flynn?

[pae]

That was over 90 days ago. My memory doesn't go back that long.

[morganm]

Hope that all helps. Just remember - time and dry heat are your friends when priming.

 

So basically I get about 4 days a year in Minnesota I can use spray primers =P If it's not too cold then it's too humid. Reading more here on this thread I think I know what happened with my last batch. To me it didn't seem like it was TOO humid out but summer in MN means humidity all the time. Says on the can of Krylon sandable gray that it should be dry in 10 minutes and I let the minis sit in the garage for 30 minutes between coats. However they were still tacky but I sprayed the next coat anyway; that's where I think the grainy texture came from.

 

I'm going to try brush on primer next time. I thought spray primer was going to be cheap and easy; well it's still cheap... =P