Anti-shine: Guidelines requested

[Doug's Workshop]

Hey, y'all, I have a question regarding the anti-shine additive.

 

Now, I know that it can take things down to a completely flat state, which I like. BUT, I keep having a problem with frosting. I've added it to RMS matte sealer, at a ratio of about 1:10 or 1:15. I've diluted the anti-shine with water to about 1:20 and tried it as a wash.

 

In both cases, I get frosting. Hitting the mini with gloss will remove it, but these minis are starship minis, and the detail is not very deep. So, I'm starting to lose the scuplted detail as I add more and more protective layers.

 

Anyways, I wash hoping for some hints on how to properly use this additive.

 

Many thanks!

 

-Doug

[All-Terrain Monkey]

It's intended to be added to paint to take down its gloss; using it on its own or mixed in with sealer wasn't the intent. Some paints are inherently shinier than others, since if Vaitalla dumped in enough flattening agent into some paints they'd either become chalkier or would have other problems. If you're sealing your miniatures anyway, then I'd say don't worry about using it.

[Mclimbin]

Ditto here. Tips on using ASA, please!

[buglips*the*goblin]

If I need good protection and a nice, flat look I seal the finished mini with a thin coat of Future and then use Testors dullcote.

 

It makes them strong enough to absorb regular punishment from handling, and my Factol Rhys mini survived a dive to the hardwood without even a mar. That should do the trick without covering up details.

[GreyHorde]

Yep, the anti-shine additive is exactly that - an additive, intended to be added to paint to knock down the shine. It's not a sealant on its own. I have added it to a couple of my 'gunk' recipes, but that's just a drop or two in about 1/3 to 1/2 of a bottle of distilled water, flow improver and slow-dri. When I use ASA in paint and really need to cut down the shine of something, like RMS Brilliant Blue, I thin it down to maybe one drop to ten or twelve drops of distilled water before it touches several drops of paint. Then I test it and see if it frosts on something disposable, like a piece of primed sheet styrene, dried rapidly with a hair dryer. If it frosts, I thin it down more and try until I get it right. Better to have it too shiny than frosted, because a good topcoat will suppress some more of the shine.

 

Now, I think I also tried adding a little bit of ASA to water and RMS Brush-on Sealer, trying to take down the sheen from it, too, but I can't be sure. Again, experiment on something you have no time invested in, first.

[Doug's Workshop]

Okay, so it looks like even my 1:20 dilution was just too strong. I'll try diluting further on a scrap mini before continuing.

 

And as for the sealer not being flat enough, I've found that any time I seal the minis, I end up with a sheen, even if I dullcoat it. Since I wanted dead flat, I tried to get dead flat.

 

On the plus side, the spaceships now look like they've been through some action, and can probably pass off as the "slightly used nothing to see here" transports that our characters are trying to acquire.

 

Thanks,

 

Doug

[Mr.Wizard]

I have personally and frequently used two products which I endorse without reservation.

They are Testors Dullcote and Krylon Artist's Matte Fixative. On no occasion have I observed frosting.

Krylon also makes a UV protective matte that I plan to purchase and try.

All these products come in spray cans, and so do not require dilution or airbrushing.

By all means, find the best product for you, this is just food for thought.....

[buglips*the*goblin]

You get a sheen even with Testor's dullcote?

 

That's weird.

 

It knocks the shine off everything I've got. I discovered its powers working with hi-gloss decal and setting solutions for models.

 

I don't know if that might be a feature of what you're using for underlayer or anything, though. I really haven't experimented with extenders, flow improvers, sealers, additives, misc. Paint, future, dullcote works for me.

 

Sorry I couldn't be more help with what's causing your grief.

[Doug's Workshop]

Meh, it is what it is. I gloss coat first, then hit the mini with dullcoat (or armory, or another matte coat). They definitely aren't glossy, but there is a slight sheen to most of my minis. Surprisingly, the best stuff I found was GW matte spray, but it seemed there was a 50/50 chance I'd get a can that never actually sprayed . . . .

 

The weekend's almost here, so more painting time for Doug! I'll test out larger dilutions and play with it a little more.

 

-Doug (who will be running a drug-addict doctor working for a Hutt in our next Star Wars game).

[tbrehaut]

For a while I was getting too much shine using Dullcote, and then found out I was putting it on too heavily. Just a single quick pass is all it needs, any more and it's still a little glossy.

[Vaitalla]

There was an additive guide put out in Casketworks a while ago, unless I'm hallucinating and Bryan never actually found room for it...in any case, yes the Anti-shine Additive is just that: an additive, meaning you add it to your paint if that paint is too shiny. Our Brush-on Sealer already has Anti-Shine in it, which is probably why you are getting frosting when you add your own. To get our sealer to go dead matte would take experimenting by adding one drop of Anti-Shine at a time to the bottle (or short-cutting and doing several mixes of different ratios and then adjusting accordingly). Aiming for dead matte isn't simple because you go one step too far and you get frosting, as you've noticed!

 

Usually when adding anti-shine to a paint which is glossy you can add one drop for every five or six drops of paint. If your paint is only slightly glossy and you are trying to hit dead matte you will need to be a lot more careful lest you overbalance.

 

--Anne

[Doug's Workshop]

Thanks, Anne. I'll look around to see if I have that issue of CW.

 

I did discover something about my brush-on matte sealer -- I hadn't shaken it up well enough. Despite using it for a year, the skull was still stuck to the bottom of the jar! I had to break it out with the end of a paintbrush. So now that the anti-shine is actually in the sealer, the whole process works a lot better.

 

I'm still gonna play with the additive, but at least I have something that works now!

 

Thanks, everyone! I'm back in business.

 

-Doug

[Evilbob]

Also the ASA seems to settle. if you dont get all the gunk off the bottom of the bottle before you add it to the paint it'll frost too. I found that Anne's formula works if its skaken, but if not 1 drop to 10 can still get frost in the cracks.

 

my 2 pennies

[psyberwolfe1]

Here is the link to the Casketworks where we find how to use the various additives. The instructions on additive use are on p. 85 of the 20.40 mb pdf which has only 88 pages.

 

Honestly what are you sealing? If it is table top figures a satin to a little less than satin will do great at protecting your figure. Dead matte finishes will always scratch. (I speak from many years of experience.) If it is for competition then know that competition models are typically not sealed, which is why most of them have some sort of extra base so the judges can handle them. Also progressive glazes/ washes of paint will take the shine off almost anything. After some of the advanced classes at RCon 08 I realized additives are really only useful for speed/ tabletop painting, and will often screw with your work. What really sucks is I have sunk $40 into additives to barely use them now.

[Doug's Workshop]

Honestly what are you sealing?

 

display minis, since I don't game nearly often enough. Competition level minis (for local comps) get a bit, since I don't expect anyone to handle them like I do.

My tabletop minis are allowed to have a satin finish, since I fully expect non-painting gamers to handle them and potentially chip them.

But my display pieces need just a little bit of protection. Plus, I have a nasty habit of having paint chip/rub off during the painting process, so I tend to coat the display pieces bit by bit.

 

On top of all that, our cats have been known to use my minis for batting practice.

 

Combine all that with a mild dose of Obsessive-Compulsive disorder, and I can honestly say that when I want dead flat, I won't be satisfied until I find a combination that gives me dead flat.

 

I discovered the matte sealer wasn't mixing completely, so it's fixed now. All is happy in Doug's world. At least until the meds wear off.

 

Cheers,

-Doug