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A few clarifications


Sarcastro01
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Hello all. Just finished paging through CAV2 and have a few basic questions. Sorry if these have been answered somewhere else.

 

Cover- Is there a limit for gaining the benefit of cover without also having your opponent get the same benefit? Say I stand in the middle of a wooded section. How far in can I be without giving my targets outside the wood the benefit of my cover? Also, is there a LOS restriction for going through sections of terrain or is it a true "what you see is what's affected"? I know CAV1 had something like a 2" restriction before you started giving your opponent cover benefits but I don't see anything like that in CAV2.

 

AA and Counter Battery SA's - Do these abilities follow all the rules for defensive fire (aka once per section that fires) or are they activated per instance that they occur? For example a section with a Dictator and two Vanquishers is strafed by a pair of Tsuiseki. Both target the Dictator who is within 6" of both Vanquishers. Do I get to attack each aircraft that attacks or does each Vanquisher only get a single shot and must declare which aircraft they are firing at? I'm guessing it's the first option but I want to be sure. The entry at one point mentions defensive fire but it also states that the SA "may be used when fire from.....falls within 6" of the defending model". Also, the term defending model is a little confusing. It almost makes it sound like unless the unit that actually has the AA SA is the target you don't get to use the ability. Should I read "defending model" as any model who is not currently being activated and is friendly?

 

Thanks in advance.

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Hello all. Just finished paging through CAV2 and have a few basic questions. Sorry if these have been answered somewhere else.
Welcome the boards! Don't worry if it's been asked already, ask away. ::):

 

Cover- Is there a limit for gaining the benefit of cover without also having your opponent get the same benefit? Say I stand in the middle of a wooded section. How far in can I be without giving my targets outside the wood the benefit of my cover? Also, is there a LOS restriction for going through sections of terrain or is it a true "what you see is what's affected"? I know CAV1 had something like a 2" restriction before you started giving your opponent cover benefits but I don't see anything like that in CAV2.
Cover in CAV2 is WYSIWYG not templated. So as long as you can draw an unobstructed line from the firing model's base or cockpit to any part of the target model you have LOS. Only the largest cover modifier is used if the target is making appropriate use of said cover.

 

AA and Counter Battery SA's - Do these abilities follow all the rules for defensive fire (aka once per section that fires) or are they activated per instance that they occur? For example a section with a Dictator and two Vanquishers is strafed by a pair of Tsuiseki. Both target the Dictator who is within 6" of both Vanquishers. Do I get to attack each aircraft that attacks or does each Vanquisher only get a single shot and must declare which aircraft they are firing at? I'm guessing it's the first option but I want to be sure. The entry at one point mentions defensive fire but it also states that the SA "may be used when fire from.....falls within 6" of the defending model". Also, the term defending model is a little confusing. It almost makes it sound like unless the unit that actually has the AA SA is the target you don't get to use the ability. Should I read "defending model" as any model who is not currently being activated and is friendly?
The normal restrictions on Defensive Fire apply, once per model fired upon (or qualifying AA or CounterBattery model) per activation. So in your example each Vanquisher would get a single shot at either gunship that fired on the Dictator, declaring which one they are firing at before resolving the AA fire.

 

Thanks in advance.
No problem, we're a pretty helpful bunch around here usually.

 

If you haven't already take a look at the FAQ, it has a link to the RAGE Chronicles Beta files. RAGE Chronicles is Reaper's method for publishing errata. While the linked document is beta, it cleans up a lot of things, especially close combat. The finalized RC08 document should be "official" sometime in the near future, it's just waiting for the folks at Reaper to give the OK.

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Cover in CAV2 is WYSIWYG. That said, the rule as written can be a bit ambiguous. If you check LOS and there is an item that partially blocks LOS then there is a cover bonus. Typically if it is something that can be fired through (fence, woods) then the penalty is -1. If it is a Hard structure (bunker, hills) then it is -2 although on accasion we rule a hard structure as only -1 if the majority of the model is visible.

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Thanks for the responses and the point to the FAQ. After reading it I do have a question regarding upgrades. Specifically piercing and shredder. Are the numbers listed added to the current value of a model's piercing/shredder values or do they replace them? For example if I choose to upgrade my Falcon with piercing/3 is does the Falcon really get piercing/8 or is it pointless to upgrade as I would be replacing piercing/5 with piercing/3?

 

One last question. Are the points for upgrading ECM and EST reversed or are they added together to get to the next level? It says ECM/2 is 40pts and ECM/3 is 20pts. Do I pay 60pts if I have no ECM at all and want ECM/3? I can understand getting a discount on ECM/3 if I am upgrading from ECM/2 but as it reads now any model can upgrade ECM or EST to level 3 for only 20pts unless you add the levels together.

 

Thanks again.

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A model must already have piercing or shredder and may only upgrade as high as piercing or shredder/3. A Falcon would be ineligible since it's base piercing value is already higher than what it allowable by the upgrade. However, as an example, you could upgrade the IFM on the Dictator 60 to Shredder/2 for 60 points or Shredder/3 for 120 points, but since the DFM does not have either piercing or shredder you can only upgrade the base RAV which gets pricey. Also, keep in mind that if the model has multiples of the same weapon the upgrade has to be purchased for each weapon. Hopefully I haven't confused you even more on the issue.

 

For the ECM and EST upgrade the cost for the 3" radius is cumulative. So if you go from no ECM to ECM/3 it costs 60 points. However, if the model already has ECM/2 it only costs 20 points for ECM/3. Same for EST.

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A few last querries to help me clear things up.

 

First is the procedure for the CFP. I'm having trouble wrapping my brain around the timing of this item. You have to declare all your targets when you activate a section but the CFP messes with this. Let's say I have 3 CAVs in a section all who decide to unload indirect fire, one of which has a CFP. Do I A) declare all targets, roll the target point for the CFP and, if successful, am allowed to change my original target point for those chaining in or B) Activate the model with the CFP, make the target roll and if it passes declare the other two CAVs chain in. In this case if the CFP model fails its roll I then declare other targets for the other two CAVs in the section. Any help to give my brain a kick in the right direction would be appreciated.

 

Salvo fire with the CFP - Does each model in the section make a roll to attack or just the model with primary weapon system chosen? The entry hints that all models who chained in and declared salvo fire get to attack (with the primary weapon stats and bonuses) but it never comes out and says it.

 

Defensive fire - another timing question. Let's say the same section later unloads direct fire into a single model. Does the target immediately declare who he is firing defensive fire at or does he wait until all fire at him is resolved and then pick? Does the defender get to fire defensively at someone who never got a chance to fire at him, say, because he is destroyed before the attacker gets to fire at him? I understand the defender needs to have LOS at the time of the attack which then begs the question if I DO get to fire at a model who declared fire at me but did not get to fire because the target was destroyed where does that fire need to come from in relation to the attacking model's move? Do they get to pick where along their move (if any) they would have taken their shots or does the attacker simply move, declare "I would fire from here" and let the defender resolve their defensive fire.

 

Thanks again for the help.

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A few last querries to help me clear things up.

 

First is the procedure for the CFP. I'm having trouble wrapping my brain around the timing of this item. You have to declare all your targets when you activate a section but the CFP messes with this. Let's say I have 3 CAVs in a section all who decide to unload indirect fire, one of which has a CFP. Do I A) declare all targets, roll the target point for the CFP and, if successful, am allowed to change my original target point for those chaining in or B) Activate the model with the CFP, make the target roll and if it passes declare the other two CAVs chain in. In this case if the CFP model fails its roll I then declare other targets for the other two CAVs in the section. Any help to give my brain a kick in the right direction would be appreciated.

Targets are declared when you declare that you are using one of the attack actions (ranged or close combat or any other action that targets an opposing model) not at the beginning of the activation. The process involved with the CFP is part of the target lock action. B is the correct procedure, though even if you pass you don't have to use that target point if you don't want to.
Salvo fire with the CFP - Does each model in the section make a roll to attack or just the model with primary weapon system chosen? The entry hints that all models who chained in and declared salvo fire get to attack (with the primary weapon stats and bonuses) but it never comes out and says it.
The models participating in the Salvo Fire (which can only be done by chaining in with a CFP model) use the CFP point so don't have to roll to attack. This is probably the only way to make good use of most open market attack CAV IFM attacks.
Defensive fire - another timing question. Let's say the same section later unloads direct fire into a single model. Does the target immediately declare who he is firing defensive fire at or does he wait until all fire at him is resolved and then pick? Does the defender get to fire defensively at someone who never got a chance to fire at him, say, because he is destroyed before the attacker gets to fire at him? I understand the defender needs to have LOS at the time of the attack which then begs the question if I DO get to fire at a model who declared fire at me but did not get to fire because the target was destroyed where does that fire need to come from in relation to the attacking model's move? Do they get to pick where along their move (if any) they would have taken their shots or does the attacker simply move, declare "I would fire from here" and let the defender resolve their defensive fire.
Remember that all non-repeatable actions (like attacks) need to be conducted at the same time. So if all the attacking models declare that they are using a move action at firing at point along that movement, they all need to move to their firing positions, resolve their attacks, then complete their moves. Defensive fire is completed after all attacks are resolved and before the attackers resolve their movement. The target may declare its defensive fire against any model which declared an attack against it whether or not you bothered to resolve the attack. Remember that damage is simultaneous and that when the target resolves its defensive fire at the damage track that it was at before the attackers resolved their attacks.
Thanks again for the help.

no worries ;)

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Thanks again for the quick answers. A few more Q's if you don't mind.

 

Salvo fire with a section - let me rephrase the question. Say a section of 4 CAVs declare an IF salvo fire. After the target point is determined only a single model falls in the AOE. Is the model A) attacked once by the salvo at +3 to the roll or B) attacked 4 times with +3 to each roll.

 

EST pods- is the TC bonus granted to models inside the bubble applied against ANY target or only the original target of the target lock? As I read it it looks like it can be applied against any target but as the target lock only affects a single target I just want to make sure.

 

Thanks.

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Thanks again for the quick answers. A few more Q's if you don't mind.

 

Salvo fire with a section - let me rephrase the question. Say a section of 4 CAVs declare an IF salvo fire. After the target point is determined only a single model falls in the AOE. Is the model A) attacked once by the salvo at +3 to the roll or B) attacked 4 times with +3 to each roll.

Roll a single attack with each additional IA used in the CF Salvo Attack. So in your example, it would be A.

 

EST pods- is the TC bonus granted to models inside the bubble applied against ANY target or only the original target of the target lock? As I read it it looks like it can be applied against any target but as the target lock only affects a single target I just want to make sure.
This one got a big change from the rulebook to RC08. It used to grant the TL bonus to any opposing model, now the bonus is only against the single target the model performed the TL on.
Thanks.

Not a problem

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