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Using the Liners


DavidVC04
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sophielining.gif

 

 

This is the classic 72mm Sophie. I'm not using the liners here, just thinned Pro Paint Dragon Black. One drop of water per one drop of paint.

 

As you can see, I'm very sloppy about priming and lining. Sometimes I'm neater, but by the time I'm through all the stages it won't matter. The important thing for me is to have the paint lines in the crevices very dark. I may go over this Sophie a second time to schieve this.

 

She won't be nearly as sloppy looking at the end (we hope), but at this stage I'm not too picky. Oh yeah, and I used a 20/0 Kolinsky for this exercise in wobbly lining. *cough*

 

No, seriously. On a 72mm Sophie no less. Like I said, sloppy.

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She won't be nearly as sloppy looking at the end (we hope), but at this stage I'm not too picky. Oh yeah, and I used a 20/0 Kolinsky for this exercise in wobbly lining. *cough*

No, seriously. On a 72mm Sophie no less. Like I said, sloppy.

 

Just a stab but the sloppiness could be because of your brush. I only say this because I have a bit of shaky hand on figure syndrome and I could get this type of result from my #1 WNS7 brush. Please don't take this as me being mean, but you might need a better brush.

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No, it's because I was careless.

 

It's not the brush, most of my darklining turns out better than this and I do manage to paint whole miniatures. I just tend to be a bit lazy and sloppy at this stage.

 

She just happens to be the one available for requested pics right now, and just happens to be rather sloppier than usual.

 

I just thought it was funny, really.

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It's rare for me to post finished pieces of any sort, but I figured an illustration of the final end result after the sloppy stage may be useful. My photography isn't the greatest since I'm just using a desk lamp and whatever backgrounds I can toss together, but this one should show some darklining.

 

This is a 25mm RAFM Vampyre, and she was done with a 5/0 synthetic with some pretty gnarly tip-curling going on. Her lining was probably worse than Sophie's, when adjusted for scale. But in the end she turned out ok.

 

rafmvamp.gif

 

The way I work, the lining doesn't need to be neat since it's the first thing after priming (which in itself may not be so neat). I find it fun to be a bit messy in the early phase since I'll have plenty of time being careful later, so I don't bother being fine about the early stuff.

 

Your critique was a polite way of saying Sophie's lining looks pretty hideous. That's honest, and it's true. That's pretty nasty stuff she's got going on. But she's not going to stay that way through the process to the end result, she's just ugly now.

 

I don't think it was your intent, but I felt the comment about shaky hands and a #1 brush skirted the edge of snobbery. I didn't take it personally, or even necessarily mean, I just see a fair bit of snobbery in the hobby when people do things differently and I think that hurts the hobby. It's why I don't do contests or shows, and why I rarely post finished minis no matter how awesome they turn out. Fun is the point of it all, and in my opinion it's far more fun for me to post goofs and messes from sloppiness or experiments gone awry than to put stuff up for ooh's and ahh's.

 

Maybe somebody out there with a method they thought was sloppy and bad might feel a little encouraged by seeing the abominable messes that can crawl off my worktable. There's always hope! ::P:

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I spent a little time with some amazing French and Canadian painters this summer. You should see the first few minutes of work on their figs...and then EVERYONE would say sloppy is the way to go. Even Jeremie Bonamont slops paint everywhere just to get the coverage...and we've all seen the way his stuff turns out. :blink:

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I tend to go for the crash bang when doing the initial lining bit...

 

I mix blue and brown liners together - and paint over most of the mini with the exception of any larger areas. This brings the detail of the sculpt of the mini back up so I can see it, fills in any of the deep recesses that would invariably come back to haunt me, and it starts the lining.

 

I am running thinner than you are in you posted work - and I am not as concerned with neatness at this point - as I still have a lot of painting left to do. YMMV of course. But I find this method to be very helpful - and very fast.

 

Examples:

post-3574-1222013068_thumb.jpg

 

post-3574-1222013129.jpgpost-3574-1222013154.jpg

 

I went alot darker with this one - because of the armour - but you'll see I didn't do the flowing skirts - as I wanted the white space for blending etc.

post-3574-1222013469.jpg

 

Hope this helps... Or at least gives you an idea of what another option might be.

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I wanted to come back and clarify a little that I'm not offended by psyberwolfe and I'm not trying to harsh on them for the criticism.

 

My concern is that when you add on things that can be read as "I can do better than that with shaky hands and a larger brush", it's not a helpful thing. Doesn't bother me, actually, I'm happy to continue being sloppy. If you have to qualify something with 'don't take offense' chances are you already know it's likely to be taken that way.

 

What I think about it personally shouldn't concern you (though it's nice you thought about that). What worries me is what somebody fresh to the hobby might take from that.

 

I lurked here before I joined here, and when a new person comes along and sees all the crazy cool stuff people are doing above their skill level... that's intimidating. Statements like the above can unintentionally create an atmosphere of exclusivity. A newcomer to the hobby might see that as a big neon sign saying "must be this skilled to enter".

 

I believe the primary responsibility of mini painters, myself included, is to act as ambassadors of the hobby to *everybody*, regardless of skill level. To encourage them to join in however messy they are. They'll improve, and they'll improve in their own time. Or they might be happy being sloppy for the rest of their hobby career.

 

It doesn't matter. They're painting, that's all that counts.

 

Since there's a whole bunch of amazing talent already here to show people the cool top-end stuff, I think my best contribution to this forum is to post my sometimes-bumbling steps. I'm not here for tips or criticism as a primary goal, but feel free to mention them.

 

I'm here to show that being sloppy is ok, that it's alright if your skills are a bit oafish. Heck, it's fun. A lot of fun. Experiment, go crazy, mess up, but paint. Painting is the only cover charge to get into the club.

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I never learned the 'line before painting' method so I line everything after it's completely done. The transparency of the liners helps in that regard.

 

In my very first painting class I found out I was doing this 'the dangerous way' but by then it was my habit.

 

In the working stages of the mini it really doesn't matter if you're sloppy or neat. It's all in the end product, IMO.

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I wanted to come back and clarify a little that I'm not offended by psyberwolfe and I'm not trying to harsh on them for the criticism.

 

My concern is that when you add on things that can be read as "I can do better than that with shaky hands and a larger brush", it's not a helpful thing. Doesn't bother me, actually, I'm happy to continue being sloppy. If you have to qualify something with 'don't take offense' chances are you already know it's likely to be taken that way.

 

What I think about it personally shouldn't concern you (though it's nice you thought about that). What worries me is what somebody fresh to the hobby might take from that.

 

I lurked here before I joined here, and when a new person comes along and sees all the crazy cool stuff people are doing above their skill level... that's intimidating. Statements like the above can unintentionally create an atmosphere of exclusivity. A newcomer to the hobby might see that as a big neon sign saying "must be this skilled to enter".

 

I believe the primary responsibility of mini painters, myself included, is to act as ambassadors of the hobby to *everybody*, regardless of skill level. To encourage them to join in however messy they are. They'll improve, and they'll improve in their own time. Or they might be happy being sloppy for the rest of their hobby career.

 

It doesn't matter. They're painting, that's all that counts.

 

Since there's a whole bunch of amazing talent already here to show people the cool top-end stuff, I think my best contribution to this forum is to post my sometimes-bumbling steps. I'm not here for tips or criticism as a primary goal, but feel free to mention them.

 

I'm here to show that being sloppy is ok, that it's alright if your skills are a bit oafish. Heck, it's fun. A lot of fun. Experiment, go crazy, mess up, but paint. Painting is the only cover charge to get into the club.

 

Buglips I wasn't trying to be mean. I noticed the sloppiness, saw you used a 20/0 brush, and scratched my head wondering why the precision brush with imprecise results. I was just trying to give a little help when it was unneeded. I also wasn't trying to say that I'm better than you but that must be how if came out.

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Yeah, I know it wasn't your intention that's why I wanted to clarify my point of view that it could be read that way.

 

I'll admit I'm somewhat oversensitive about instances (real or perceived) of exclusivity because I've seen way too much of it. CMON is overrun with it, for example. Local model clubs, too.

 

A lot of times it's with the best of intentions, and we hobbyists as a whole need to be careful about it. I remember one time I went to an IPMS meeting here.

 

There was a guy, obviously fresh to modelling, and he'd brought a Klingon Bird of Prey. Early build, maybe his first, and painted a bright eye-gouging neon green.

 

Well, the regulars, being 'helpful' explained what colours he should use, how he should fill gaps, and pretty much outlined all the stuff he did wrong. Not maliciously, and with the best of intentions, but it was clear to me from the expression on the guy's face that the *effect* was the equivalent of a social circle of shame.

 

They'd stolen his joy from the *doing* of the hobby by their well-intentioned criticism of the *result*. IMO, they missed the point of the exercise. I asked him afterwards if he enjoyed the build. He said he did, but now he wasn't so sure the hobby was for him.

 

I saw this again and again at contests, too. Never intentionally hurtful, but people didn't realize the message they were sending.

 

I misread you, and I apologize. I've read your posts and I know you're not a jerk kind of personality. No worries, no offense was ever taken.

 

Actually, I might post this Sophie as a WIP from sloppy start to (hopefully) fantastic finish.

 

Hope my griping didn't put you out any, psyberwolfe.

 

 

Edit: The 20/0 came out sloppy because I slapped on too much paint and I carelessly used the side of the brush in a few places when I was going quickly. I could have used anything, really. I might have started out with the intention of going slow but then got lazy and impatient. I don't rightly remember, actually, I was still only a third into my morning coffee when I did it. :lol:

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Let's keep that in PMs maybe and let this thread stay on lining. Seeing people's work and reading their comments has helped me a lot. Sidetracking the thread with commentary about commentary just muddies things. ::):

 

Oh we were talking about something? ::D:

 

Really I do my lining as a go.

 

BTW Buglips I would love to see a Sophie WIP, and I completely understand the cofee thing.

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If that's sloppy lining, I may give up painting. ;-)

 

As a beginner-intermediate painter, seeing how miniatures that end up being near perfect start looking nowhere near perfect is very, very reassuring and inspiring. I think it's Jolie the Scribe that's also on the WIP board has been just as inspiring for me. It's nice to know that you can tighten things up as you go along. It makes me not think I totally suck during the working phase. If other people can take blah and turn it into WOW, that means I can too. (Someday...)

 

I got to take a class with Jeremie B. at GenCon. It was amazing watching him shplot the paint all over the figure very quickly and very messy. (If I remember correctly, he made a 'thbbbbth' sound as he slopped the paint on.) However, there was enough skill there that made his quick and dirty look more amazing than anything I spent hours on.

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