Thoughts on 4.0 now that the fervor has died down a bit

[Dragon Snack]

Actually, multiclassing any caster in 3.x was weak sauce. It kept you away from the higher level spells longer...

 

And, as per RAW, Paladins that multiclass can never return to being a Paladin. No HR necessary.

[haldir]

And, as per RAW, Paladins that multiclass can never return to being a Paladin. No HR necessary.

 

Depending on which setting you use, Paladin have multi-options. FR for example they had options for paladins to multi into other classes & keep leveling as a paladin, depending on which god/goddess you followed. Most of the time it was cleric I think. I know Monk was the same way. Again depending on which god you choose to follow.

[Dragon Snack]

Well yes, in fact in one of my games I had a player with a Halfling Paladin/Monk (Hin Fist). But the core RAW has multiclass restrictions already in place.

 

I'm kind of assuming Bikerdrew wasn't running a FR campaign, since he didn't want Teifling PCs and multiclassed Paladins.

[Cadaver]

[Lars Porsenna]

"Yeah! I'm a monster! Rarrr!"

 

Damon.

[Reaperbryan]

Multiclassing exists in 4e, but in my 4 different 4e games I have yet to see it practised as an option.

 

It is now a feat you spend - Multicalss (Class) ((Three's a fancier name, but each class has it's own name, and I'm not gonna list them all)). For this feat, tou gain 2 things - 1)One of the "class abilities of the class you MC into (like if you MC wizard you gain cantrips, etc.). 2) When you level up and gain a new Spell/Exploit/Prayer/etc. You can choose to gain one from either your original class or your MC class. So a MC Wiz/Ftr could choose a new Encounter Exploit (Fighter power) or a new Spell (Wizard power) when gaining a level - but not both. If the character is level 11, then he's choosing form the level 11 list, as normal, but can choose from two classes' lists.

 

Also, IIRC, the ability at level gain to replace an older known power with a different power of that older power's level means that a ftr that MCs to Wiz at lv 7 can now replace an old lower lvl exploit (like maybe replace one of his Ftr at-wills) with a new Wiz Spell (like maybe, Magic Missile!). Since he can only gain 1 per level (and not even that many, in reality, more like one per 1.4 levels) and replace 1 per level, it takes a while ot even split his powers 50/50 unless he HC's out of the gate and begins by choosing 50/50.

 

I do think that it owuld be more balanced - Level 7=Level 7, and the HP/Defense differences between the classes is not as pronounced, so it should be a viable option. Heck, I might even be persuaded, should a cahracter die, to try it out, where in previous editions a MC Ftr Wiz was usually sub-optimal without really munchkinny feats and prestice classes to back it up.

[Cadaver]

Multiclassing exists in 4e, but in my 4 different 4e games I have yet to see it practised as an option.

 

It is now a feat you spend - Multicalss (Class) ((Three's a fancier name, but each class has it's own name, and I'm not gonna list them all)). For this feat, tou gain 2 things - 1)One of the "class abilities of the class you MC into (like if you MC wizard you gain cantrips, etc.). 2) When you level up and gain a new Spell/Exploit/Prayer/etc. You can choose to gain one from either your original class or your MC class. So a MC Wiz/Ftr could choose a new Encounter Exploit (Fighter power) or a new Spell (Wizard power) when gaining a level - but not both. If the character is level 11, then he's choosing form the level 11 list, as normal, but can choose from two classes' lists.

 

Also, IIRC, the ability at level gain to replace an older known power with a different power of that older power's level means that a ftr that MCs to Wiz at lv 7 can now replace an old lower lvl exploit (like maybe replace one of his Ftr at-wills) with a new Wiz Spell (like maybe, Magic Missile!). Since he can only gain 1 per level (and not even that many, in reality, more like one per 1.4 levels) and replace 1 per level, it takes a while ot even split his powers 50/50 unless he HC's out of the gate and begins by choosing 50/50.

 

I do think that it owuld be more balanced - Level 7=Level 7, and the HP/Defense differences between the classes is not as pronounced, so it should be a viable option. Heck, I might even be persuaded, should a cahracter die, to try it out, where in previous editions a MC Ftr Wiz was usually sub-optimal without really munchkinny feats and prestice classes to back it up.

At first I thought Multiclassing in 4E sucked, then I took a closer look at it. At higher levels, in the right combinations, MC can be devestating.

IE: Rogue/Ranger at 11th Level ignore the Paragon paths and get twin strike to replace obe of the Rogue At Will exploits.

Hunter's Quarry + Sneak Attack = 1(W) + 5D6 damage + 1(W)(off hand) or A Daily, or an Encounter + 5D6.

Not counting Feats that increase Sneak Attack and Hunter's Quarry attacks.

Pure Nastieness.

Plus a lot of the Ranger Exploits have a lot of hit and run style techniques which is perfect for the Rogue.

[Reaperbryan]

Ignore my previous post - I've just been told that not having played a MC, I kind of got confused. Here's how it *actually* works:

 

There's 4 feats and then "paragon advancement" which are separate issues.

 

Stage 1) The "Gateway" feat to multiclassing - (various names) -

usually grants a minor version of some class benefit, and training in

a new skill that's from the new class. It also now allows you to gain

class only Feats that are reserved for other classes and use any items

that are "class only" etc. etc.

 

Stage 2) Then there are 3 "power swap" feats - that you may take after

the "gateway" feat. These are the ones that allow you to take one

power you already have from your current class, and exchange it for a

power from your new class within the spelled out limits of the swap

feat itself.

 

Stage 3) Paragon advancement - if and only if you've taken all four

feats (gateway + 3 power swaps) you may advance as a "dual class"

character starting at 11th level by advancing as another class as your

Paragon class. This allows you to freely pick between the two classes

for your new powers at 11, 12, and 20, and even swap out one of your

At-Wills.

 

My apologies for the error - in my ignorance I was confusing all 3 stages and combining them all into one simple feat.

[Cadaver]

Ignore my previous post - I've just been told that not having played a MC, I kind of got confused. Here's how it *actually* works:

 

There's 4 feats and then "paragon advancement" which are separate issues.

 

Stage 1) The "Gateway" feat to multiclassing - (various names) -

usually grants a minor version of some class benefit, and training in

a new skill that's from the new class. It also now allows you to gain

class only Feats that are reserved for other classes and use any items

that are "class only" etc. etc.

 

Stage 2) Then there are 3 "power swap" feats - that you may take after

the "gateway" feat. These are the ones that allow you to take one

power you already have from your current class, and exchange it for a

power from your new class within the spelled out limits of the swap

feat itself.

 

Stage 3) Paragon advancement - if and only if you've taken all four

feats (gateway + 3 power swaps) you may advance as a "dual class"

character starting at 11th level by advancing as another class as your

Paragon class. This allows you to freely pick between the two classes

for your new powers at 11, 12, and 20, and even swap out one of your

At-Wills.

 

My apologies for the error - in my ignorance I was confusing all 3 stages and combining them all into one simple feat.

Nonetheless, the feats are almost so trivial, and you get so many, that the power swaps are often better than the paltry +1 or +2 you can get.

[Reaperbryan]

Oh, certainly. I just felt I had to set the record straight.

 

Still think a MC Ftr/Wiz would be awesome. And yeah, it's generally considered that a Ranger/Rogue MC is the nastiest combination for a striker. Now, I'm looking at Warlord/Cleric for a Leader/Defender combo. We'll see.....

[chronoplasm]

Oh, certainly. I just felt I had to set the record straight.

 

Still think a MC Ftr/Wiz would be awesome.

 

Indeed. Especially since your spells even mark the enemies.

[Cadaver]

Now, I'm looking at Warlord/Cleric for a Leader/Defender combo. We'll see.....

We have a cleric so my warlord picked up Ritual Spellcasting to have a backup rezzer just in case.

The sad thing is my inspirational warlord often does more healing than the cleric anyway.

[Qwyksilver]

In our 4.0 campaign, Storminator is playing a Cleric, and he does some healing, but it seems our Warlord is often throwing around the healing more often.

 

His cleric gets clobbered so often that he has started referring to Second Wind as "Second Round"

[Cadaver]

Oh, and for those that do play or are continuing to play 4E. Here

It's an Exel sheet that has almost all the feats and does the calculating for you.

[Reaperbryan]

My issue with self-calculating sheets is economics...It's cheaper to print the sheet on good cardstock once and re-write everythign each level or two (good carstock ensures survival after multiple erasures) than to print a new copy at every even level.