Cade Posted September 3, 2003 Share Posted September 3, 2003 I decided to start a new thread to get some recipes down. Extenders - Which extenders do you use? So far, I have only found gel extenders. Since I'm trying to thin paints, gel doesn't seem good. The only liquid I found said it dried gloss and I would like a matte. Thinners - Water or an actual thinner? What brands work best? Flow Aid - I picked up W&N Flow Aid. How much do you use for which types of application? Magic Wash - Does the Future do something the Flow Aid doesn't? What is the difference? When do you use which? I saw a recipe for 80/10/10 - extender, flow aid, water. Isn't that a lot of extender? Is that mix for reqular thinning of paints? Does it ever dry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kheprera Posted September 3, 2003 Share Posted September 3, 2003 That is a lot of extender, to me. I use the Floquil Extender, but recently they changed their product (as Anne has pointed out to me) and it's no longer clear, but a milky color. The Windsor & Newton Flow Aid is some of the best, but you don't want to use much of it at all. Maybe 1 part per 10 or 20. I can't find it around here so I use the Floquil Flow Aid. It's decent and the instructions for that say 1 part per 20. My mix when I'm wet blending is 30 water/30 extender/30 paint/10 flow aid... so three drops water, 3 drops extender, 3 drops paint, and 1 drop flow aid. It's thin, but when I wet-blend I want it thin so I can build up gradually. When I'm not wet blending I'll add about 2-3 more drops of paint to the mix so it's not quite as thin, but I do like thin paint. This way if I make a mistake I can easily cover it up without too much trouble. Also, I keep one part of my palette (I have one with actual cups) full of 1/2 water 1/2 extender, this way if a wayward stroke of paint ends up on part of the mini I've already finished, a clean brush dipped in the clear liquid will take that paint off without ruining your work (but you have to work fast before it dries). Hope that helps!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaper User Vaitalla Posted September 3, 2003 Reaper User Share Posted September 3, 2003 Extenders - Which extenders do you use? Flow Aid - I picked up W&N Flow Aid. How much do you use for which types of application? Magic Wash - Does the Future do something the Flow Aid doesn't? What is the difference? When do you use which? I saw a recipe for 80/10/10 - extender, flow aid, water. Isn't that a lot of extender? Is that mix for reqular thinning of paints? Does it ever dry? Okie dokie...I know I've covered this in other threads but I'm too lazy to look 'em up. Extender: Folk Art Brand, by Plaid, in the bottle with the maroon label, can be found in craft stores usually by the craft paints. Michael's is a more reliable source than Hobby Lobby. Flow Improver: W&N, all the way, baby. Magic Wash: Same effect as Flow Improver except that the floor wax properties help to protect the minis, and it is toxic, unlike Flow Improver. I am a brush licker so I use Flow Improver! Recipe: 80% folk art extender, 10% flow improver, 10% water. I add it to absolutely everything, all the time. One, two, or three drops depending on how much paint I'm working with. There are no exact recipes; usage will vary by brand, color, and consistancy of paint. That said, if I used them separately, I would only vary the amount of flow improver in accordance with the amount of paint I was using, and vary the amount of extender in accordance with both the amount of paint and the application (layering or wet blending or wash or basecoat). Both additives will aid you in all painting endeavors. :) --Anne 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstormhammer Posted September 3, 2003 Share Posted September 3, 2003 Anne's not kidding on this one, chuckles. I painted the 'old' way, she handed me a bottle of this stuff, and the difference was like night and day. I'll never go back to not using an extender ever again. You're looking at an investment of ~$20 (US), but the results are well, well worth it. --LSH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hells_Clown Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 Ok, I'm sure I've asked this before, but I'm dense and have a bad memory. Thinner Vs Flow Aid: What's the difference? It seems to me that thin paint would flow better. Or is it that surface tension thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokingwreckage Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 I think flow aid actually changes the way the paint acts in a different way than just thinning does, much like the "magic wash" or adding detergent. I JUST TRIED flow aid with a GW wash; it behaved very well indeed, much better than thinned wash alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Froggy the Great Posted September 4, 2003 Moderator Share Posted September 4, 2003 And Flow-Aid versus (reaper brand) Ink Extender...what are the differences? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paintrix Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 And Flow-Aid versus (reaper brand) Ink Extender...what are the differences? Anne, maybe? I'd like to know this myself. I use about 25% W&N Flow Improver, 25% Liquitex Slo-Dri or Plaid Extender, and 50% water as a general thinning liquid. About a 'brushful' to a couple drops paint, and maybe a couple more drops water if needed to a basic working consistency. For finicky detail work or darklining, I use up to 50% Flow Improver and 50% water. For glazes, I like to use roughly 50/50 Plaid/FolkArt gel Blending Medium (just a thick acrylic medium) and water, which creates a non-runny translucent color. Never seen anything sold specifically as a 'thinner' for acrylics. Retarder or extender increases the working time and retards drying; flow improver reduces surface tension and will let the paint 'feed' off the brush better, but it also has some of the properties of 'magic wash'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted September 4, 2003 Author Share Posted September 4, 2003 Thinners: Vallejo sells a small bottle of thinner for acryllic paints, I have some but I haven't yet tested it. This is the only thinner I haver ever seen for acryllic paints. Extenders: Folk Art - Liquid or gel? Liquitex Slo-Dri - Liquid or gel? I thought that this was a gel. The only Liquitex extenders that were liquid that I've seen were glossy. Does Liquitex sell a liquid matte extender? Or does its glossy nature become irrelevant once mixed with flat paints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kheprera Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 The Liquitex I have is clear and as fluid as water. As I mentioned, they recently changed their formula and it's now a cloudy color, though still liquid. I don't know how the cloudiness effects the paint color or brilliance, but I imagine that it would dull it out. Also, the Liquitex I use isn't glossy, but then I use it with Reaper paints, which are a very matte paint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted September 4, 2003 Author Share Posted September 4, 2003 The Liquitex I have is clear and as fluid as water. As I mentioned, they recently changed their formula and it's now a cloudy color, though still liquid. I don't know how the cloudiness effects the paint color or brilliance, but I imagine that it would dull it out. Which brings up a good question, with the change of formulas does this change to overall amount used? Is the cloudy formula more or less concentrated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paintrix Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 Yeah, I assume I have the 'old' formula of Liquitex, and it's clear and fluid. It does not seem to affect the matte finish of either Vallejo or Reaper paints, at least in the quantities I use. The FolkArt/Plaid extender I have is also liquid. Fortunately I haven't noticed a huge difference in performance between it and other brands (though the difference is noticeable between flow improvers). Vallejo thinner, interesting... --Jennifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted September 4, 2003 Author Share Posted September 4, 2003 Vallejo thinner, interesting... The Vallejo thinner is a translucent whitish that appears clear when spread thin. In my initial test, it did not appear to distort the color of my paint. I plan on doing some more testing. I will post results in a new thread once I do. My concerns: What effects does it have that water doesn't? Is it supposed to have some qualities of both extender and flow aid already in the mix? How much is needed? I'm sure everyone here uses a lot thinner, be that mostly water or a special recipe. Suppose I use 50% Vallejo thiner for base coats and 75% for highlights and washes. I would go through those little $3 bottles real quick. - So, is it cost effective? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaper User Vaitalla Posted September 4, 2003 Reaper User Share Posted September 4, 2003 Okay, just have time for a quick note-- Re: proportions and thinners and extenders (oh my!), I always use both water and the product in question. Usually such things are formulated as concentrates or meant to be used with water. Again, there are no exact proportions which are "right" or "wrong", everyone develops a particular mix that works with their painting style and paints. Re: "thinner", thinner is usually another word for flow improver, because one of its properties is to "float" color pigment, enabling you to use paint with a more watery consistancy (i.e., thinner!) but without weakening the pigment as water typically does; color stays stronger using flow improver. Just a darn useful substance in general! Re: Reaper ink extender vs. W&N and other flow improvers--Reaper ink extender works as flow improver on our inks, but will not work as such on most other inks, or on most paints. The reason for this is simple--Reaper inks are formulated using printing inks, rather than lettering inks, so it's really like trying to make your apple pie with oranges... Ummm...did I get everything? --Anne :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Froggy the Great Posted September 4, 2003 Moderator Share Posted September 4, 2003 So the Reaper Ink Extender does or does not work as flow improver with Reaper paints? It seems to work ok, but then I don't know what I'm looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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