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are the large figures too fragile or too costly?

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I play the elves faction, and several times I've used the silver dragon. But for all those points, and it does not have Tactician like the other elf WLs have, the dragon goes down fast. Every time it was killed I look at the point cost and wonder why do I play with this figure, besides for the "kewl" factor. :wub: It does looks cool having the dragon in the field, and my opponents do seem intimidated by it, but for all those points I could have either one of the other WLs and about 3-5 more figures. I still want to play with the dragon. I spent enough $ on it. <_<

 

A couple of times it got killed by 2x Ice Storm cast by Darkspawn WL mage. Now 1 Ice Storm takes out any elf but Mossbeard or the dragon. Perhaps magic is the dragon's weakness? I haven't had much chance to get the dragon into melee with grunts to see how it fares, but it is disheartening to see the dragon being the first "elf" to fall. Mossbeard has fared better, but then maybe that's because the big spells were thrown at the dragon.

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I play the elves faction, and several times I've used the silver dragon. But for all those points, and it does not have Tactician like the other elf WLs have, the dragon goes down fast. Every time it was killed I look at the point cost and wonder why do I play with this figure, besides for the "kewl" factor. :wub: It does looks cool having the dragon in the field, and my opponents do seem intimidated by it, but for all those points I could have either one of the other WLs and about 3-5 more figures. I still want to play with the dragon. I spent enough $ on it. <_<

 

A couple of times it got killed by 2x Ice Storm cast by Darkspawn WL mage. Now 1 Ice Storm takes out any elf but Mossbeard or the dragon. Perhaps magic is the dragon's weakness? I haven't had much chance to get the dragon into melee with grunts to see how it fares, but it is disheartening to see the dragon being the first "elf" to fall. Mossbeard has fared better, but then maybe that's because the big spells were thrown at the dragon.

 

Maybe you might consider adding a Counter Spell to your Dragon. With a CP of 8 you effectively make his MD a 21, 90% of the time. Personally, I spend the points and would bring the Dragon as an Outrider. The Prince with armor is FAR more cost effective!!

 

Cheers,

Brian

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I'd be interested to know what the rest of your army is like.

 

I agree that Counterspell is going to do wonders for your problem. The Witch is a downright nasty model to play against because she's so blasted accurate with her spells. You know what, though? Next time take a Counterspell or two to put a serious crimp on her ability to kill the dragon, use your archers and whatnot to whittle away at her body guard, and park that dragon on her doorstep. I guarantee she'll go down smooth. 10 DV! That means with upgrades she can only have DV 12, and you've got the MAV on that Dragon to take her in one turn.

 

Also, think about how you're moving the Dragon. It has very impressive movement while flying, but remember that it can be shot at without line of sight issues while flying. On the ground you'll need some pretty large obstacles to give it any sort of cover bonus since its so big, but if you play with lots of terrain that's something to consider.

 

Here's another trick - Deploy your dragon first, way off to one side. Hopefully your opponent will deploy the Witch to match, hoping to repeat his magical attacks. To begin the game, use the Dragon's impressive fly speed to move it to the other side of the table. 24 inches is a very long way! Then charge his soldiers - the ones that are on the opposite flank as the Witch. Now your opponent has his entire army between the Witch and the Dragon. Might slow him down, and if you're really lucky he'll make some blunder while trying to get the Witch over to the dragon and your troops can pick her off.

 

Another option would be to bring some offensive magic of your own and try to shoot the Witch before she shoots you - using your speed to get the first shot off. This is a dicey move since the Witch's MD means you have to roll an 8 or higher to attack. Since the dragon is a Beast it can't use any equipment, so the only way to boost that would be to have a cleric cast Bless on the Dragon, which gives you a hit on a 7 or higher. That assumes that the Witch hasn't taken any magical armor equipment. Honestly I think that's a good bet. If I played the Witch I'd take +2 DV before I took +2 MD. Her natural DV of 10 is just downright scary! Anyways if you try shooting first, might also want to have that counterspell handy because it's a long shot and the odds are against you actually landing the attack.

 

Finally, a "failsafe" trick: Leave the Dragon in the back row for a few turns. Pack a few attack spells so you can support your army from as far back as possible (so, 15-18 inches behind your front line, give or take for the spells you have). During the first turn you'll probably just be maneuvering, and during the second turn combat usually begins, so have your dragon 15ish inches behind your front line. Use the Dragon's spells to attack an enemy soldier. Plink one or two. That way your investment isn't wasted. Most likely your opponent will not advance the Witch up far enough to actually attack the Dragon since that would put her in a very dangerous position in relation to your army. If you're lucky she'll blow her expensive spells on your troops. If not, oh well... Try to rough up his army a bit before committing the dragon up close, and that way you've at least got something for the investment.

 

Hope some of those ideas were useful!

 

Oh, one last note: As you get better at protecting your Dragon, your opponent will start using the Witch as more than a dragon-hunter. Be prepared for that, as an AOE spell from the Witch can be pretty dangerous to your army! As you both vary the spells and tricks you use, that's when you really get into the depth of this game, and it gets really fun!

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I can't add any Warlord specific advice, just some general advice.

 

Large and imposing figures like dragons tend to make opponents nervous. Often times they will target them to the point of distraction, ignoring "lesser" troops. If you recognize that tendancy in your opponents, use it to your advantage. Deploy and move the dragon to set "traps" for your opponent. Use the dragon to keep the focus off the more subtle dangers of your army.

 

I've used this a lot in 40k. I have a Baneblade model that I used to use with my Imperial Gaurd army. It rarely ever killed its own value in points. But using it correctly, I could drive a couple of my regular opponents to distraction, allowing some of my more vulnerable troops to get to effective positions while they concentrated firepower on the Baneblade.

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If it wasnt for it being your Warlord I'd totally get used to it being a distraction. Thats how my other half likes to use the Hill Giant. It scares the other player into over commiting troops and then the goblins sweep in and clean up. But it IS your warlord so you deffinatly want those counter spells and Maybe another caster close at hand to have some Bolts handy to counter at the witch.

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I will concur that the Counterspell would be a good addition but let give you another suggestion , have you tried a cleric or 2 ? One of our players uses the Silver Dragon and the Druidess plus sometimes Niriodel . Personally I love Niriodel with his ranged attacks as well as his clerical abilities . ::D:

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I've been reading all the great advice above and asked myself, why not do all of it. ::D:

 

Like Kristof65 pointed out, players tend to get intimidated and fixated on the big "monster" on the tabletop. I've abused many opponents by deliberately dangling the tank/carnifex/dragon near the body of my army and watched them spend half their army's efforts for a turn or even two wiping it out. On the other hand, I've caught myself getting too focused on my opponent's big "monster" too. :blush: While they maneuver to get into position to kill him, you get to move your army, where the majority of your firepower is, right up to their troops. Just keep him near, but as jdripley suggested, not too near the front. Keep their attention on getting to him so they don't pay enough attention to the rest of your force. Sacrificing him early is worth the lost points if it helps defeat the enemy. The only downside is not getting the satisfaction of having your dragon eating enemy troops. :down:

 

Even if it IS your warlord, I say go for it. Put him out there and let them go for it. Adding those counterspells will just make him that much more survivable and add to his "scary" reputation. The idea of a cleric or two to cast some healing is just plain mean though. :devil: LOL

 

just my two cents

 

DRG

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Maybe you might consider adding a Counter Spell to your Dragon. With a CP of 8 you effectively make his MD a 21, 90% of the time. Personally, I spend the points and would bring the Dragon as an Outrider. The Prince with armor is FAR more cost effective!!

 

Cheers,

Brian

 

I'll consider the Counter Spell.

 

The Prince with armor is FAR more cost effective!!

Wouldn't this mean that the Prince is too cheap or the dragon is too expensive?

 

 

I tried a suicidal dragon tactic once: dragon gets in to the middle of their army, wipes a bunch out, dies, then my clerics cast Resurrection and 2x Cure 3 to bring him back to full roaring life. It was in the middle of the battle when I realized that Resurrection has a short range. ::(: Also, I had a horrid set of rolls where the dragon hit 1 time in 10 attacks, against grunts. It also failed its Tough/4 check on the first try. I didn't know 1s could show up so often. :blink:

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I tend to stick two spells on my Dragon, lightning blast and counterspell and maybe a couple of elven arcane blasts that they can use defensviely. Use the ranger move to move him up while flying (models can start out flying), which way depends on the enemy deployment. And remember that in an all elf force, pretty much everyone has Ranger, so you can really mess with them by moving models in different ways to maximize forcing your opponent to react and line his forces up.

 

Also since you are flyng, even though everyone can see him, all ranged and spell attacks are at half range. So, most of the time, even if the opponent wins the first initiative, they wont be able to hit the dragon with much.

 

Then when the dragon does activate, its fly over to the end of the line and lightning blast away.

 

Then i you had archers in the same troop then they can pot shot all of the now hurt models from across the board. If you had centaurs then they would have used their ranger moves to get in position to now use theirhigh speed to run past the front line and smack down the witch or atleast force her to pay attention to them instead of the dragon.

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I didn't know 1s could show up so often. :blink:

 

They do if they're my dice... :down:

Apparently we buy our dice from the same source.

 

That's actually the reason I like the Renegade Legion series of games - you want to roll low in that game.

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I didn't know 1s could show up so often. :blink:

 

They do if they're my dice... :down:

Apparently we buy our dice from the same source.

 

That's actually the reason I like the Renegade Legion series of games - you want to roll low in that game.

 

I guess that advertisement that said "We're the #1 dice seller" has another meaning. ::D:

 

 

Doesn't matter, if I have to roll low, I roll high (Star Fleet Battles photon torpedoes, anyone?); and if I have to roll high, I roll low.

 

The only time I can confuse the dice is in large complex games, like World in Flames, where the dice don't know which way to roll since sometimes you want to roll high, and sometimes you want to roll low.

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The Prince with armor is FAR more cost effective!!

Wouldn't this mean that the Prince is too cheap or the dragon is too expensive?

 

You get a prince with greater armor at around 1/2 the cost, only -1 AC, -1MAV and 2/3 of the damage tracks of the dragon.

 

With an "expensive" faction like the elves, for some low points lists it is hard to justify the dragon when the prince is nearly as good. For lists over 1500pts, why choose, bring both!! ::D:

 

Oh and BTW, I think the Dragon is over priced. I have played with flight a bunch and just don't see the point/use ratio working out in a general game. Otherwise, they would NEVER had to 'invent' HOVER!

 

Just my 2p worth,

Brian

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Flight is definitely tricky. I think it's mostly useless if taken en masse. It is an expensive SA, and you're really only going to get one good turn out of it. The way I like to use Fly is how I use my Griffon - which, by the way, took quite a few games of trial and error.

 

I like to take one good flier, if I'm going to use a flier, and use it as a threat-area model. The model is up in the air so it has immunity to a large percentage of enemy models. Mages, Archers, and other fliers are its only real threat. Many armies are melee heavy, so quite often there are only a few models that can affect your flier until it lands. The model also has a good attack value (well, the ones I pick do, not all of them do) so it is a serious threat to any fragile models. Finally, because of the way Fly works, I have plenty of options on where I can land the model when I do end up charging down to the ground with it.

 

All of that basically means that the opponent has to really think about how they are maneuvering their army when a flier is in play. They must be cautious of their mages, their support troops, and all of that, because at any time they could find a big flying solo landing on their army! It's an accepted rule in a wargame that if anything in your army messes with the way the opponent moves their troops - specifically if they can't do what they want because they must protect themselves from your model - you are at an advantage.

 

Incidentally, Burrowers work very much similarly. I often use my Giant Scorpion in just the same manner. Actually I like Burrow just a little bit better because there is only one rarely-taken spell that can affect a burrower. Other than that you've got to take another burrower.

 

 

Another thing to remember when using something like the Silver Dragon is timing. I've often blown up my own models by using them too aggressively. I put them in there ahead of my grunts, and they get ganged up on! It took me forever to figure it out, but the lesson is this: Don't engage with a solo (or any extra awesome model for that matter) unless you've also got plenty of troopers in there as well. Basically, you don't want the enemy to have *just* your big solo to worry about in any given turn. Any army can rip down any solo if that's all it has to do. Heck, many single troops could. Solos shine when you don't let more than a couple enemy models at it at a time, and the way you do that is by charging it in after, or with, your soldiers. Lock up the enemy in melee before bringing the big guy in, and he'll be a terror because the enemy can't effectively bring his strength against it. Do that, and your solo will demolish one or two grunts a turn for the rest of the game!

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