ReaperCon Painting Contest

[GreyHorde]

And (rhetorical question, not to start a debate) where would we be without Tolkien?

Emphasis, well, yeah...umm...mine. And if being accused of thinking in a non-linear modality wasn't enough, now you guys have me quoting (talking to?) myself. Sheesh, let it go, will ya'?

[SIGIL]

I agree with owing a lot to Gary G and Dennis Mize but was kind of dumbfounded by the rest of the post.

I really don't care if Reaper does any memorial awards or not. But, saying they don't owe something directly to Tolkien is Fantasy, as long as Reaper includes the type of elves, dwarfs, orcs, goblins and halflings in their lines that were created by or re-invented by Tolkien they owe a little something. I'm pretty sure halflings and orcs and ents and huorns are all original Tolkien creations and the modern fantasy elf, pointy hat magician, dwarf, goblin et ceteras are all Tolkien interpretation of older folk legends. I'd say without Tolkien, Reaper would never have existed because AD & D wouldn't have.

 

As far as Tom Meier goes, isn't he the guy that pretty much revolutionized miniature sculpting by using and promoting the use of E-Pox-E Putty and then green stuff and was the first to use them as a sculpting mediums. So, that kind of makes him the father of modern miniature sculpting. I'd say without E-Pox-E Putty and green stuff Reaper would be a wholly different company and probably would not even be around in its current form... so they directly owe Tom a great deal considering every sculptor they have has followed his lead on using epoxy.

 

 

Wrong on both counts.

 

Yes the mainstream ideas of modern fantasy ARE just Tolkien rehashes, BUT I do not think it can be said that without Tolkien Fantasy would not exist. It might have turned out differently, but it would certainyl have found it's way into modern popular culture. What about R.E. Howard, who was in my opinion the better write of the two? Or the many other lesser known fantasy writers of the 30's and since. Tolkien's vision of fantasy supplanted almost all others because of the breadth of his stories. I would say that he certainly was the master of world crafting, but not the Father of fantasy. D&D existed because there was a group of historical gamers who thought it would be cool to re enact the battles of Tolkien's fantasy yes. However, I am fairly certain that they would have re-enacted the battles of Troy, or Thermopylae, Arthur's knights, the Rag' Norok, or Conan, or John Carter of Mars or some other suitably ancient or fantastic setting, had there not been Tolkien. The interest was there with or without Tolkien and would have eventually made it's way to where it is now regardless.

 

Tom Meier's contribution to the world of miniature sculpture is certainyl profound, but I would not dare go as far as to say that Reaper would not exist today without him. That is just absurd. People WERE sculpting before he came along, and I am sure that as the hobby expanded SOMEONE else would have found a better way to sculpt than by blobbing together bits of melted pewter and then carving away at that. I would guess that people would have turned more to dental waxes and polymer clays. There is no one person attributable to the evolution of an entire kind of fiction, or an entire method of craft. Again if the interest is there, SOMEONE will find a way.

[LunchBox]

The mokey sees all...I was just going to say something similar...thanks!

[Heisler]

Actually the answer to the Lunchbox's question was in the rules themselves (third post down). The first three posts all came from Anne. We should remember that sometimes the answers are there if we actually read the rules.

 

Contest Rules

 

7. Models which have appeared previously online or in publications are not allowed, and such entries will be disqualified in accord with the spirit of the competition (EDIT: it has been decided that models which have been published online or in print are allowed after all, but models previously entered in the competition here at ReaperCon can not enter again. Likewise, models entered this year cannot be entered again next year). The exception is works in progress; models which were featured as works in progress in a forum or article, with no completed picture published, may be entered.

[Reaperbryan]

I agree with owing a lot to Gary G and Dennis Mize but was kind of dumbfounded by the rest of the post.

I really don't care if Reaper does any memorial awards or not. But, saying they don't owe something directly to Tolkien is Fantasy, as long as Reaper includes the type of elves, dwarfs, orcs, goblins and halflings in their lines that were created by or re-invented by Tolkien they owe a little something. I'm pretty sure halflings and orcs and ents and huorns are all original Tolkien creations and the modern fantasy elf, pointy hat magician, dwarf, goblin et ceteras are all Tolkien interpretation of older folk legends. I'd say without Tolkien, Reaper would never have existed because AD & D wouldn't have.

 

As far as Tom Meier goes, isn't he the guy that pretty much revolutionized miniature sculpting by using and promoting the use of E-Pox-E Putty and then green stuff and was the first to use them as a sculpting mediums. So, that kind of makes him the father of modern miniature sculpting. I'd say without E-Pox-E Putty and green stuff Reaper would be a wholly different company and probably would not even be around in its current form... so they directly owe Tom a great deal considering every sculptor they have has followed his lead on using epoxy.

 

 

Wrong on both counts.

 

Yes the mainstream ideas of modern fantasy ARE just Tolkien rehashes, BUT I do not think it can be said that without Tolkien Fantasy would not exist. It might have turned out differently, but it would certainyl have found it's way into modern popular culture. What about R.E. Howard, who was in my opinion the better write of the two? Or the many other lesser known fantasy writers of the 30's and since. Tolkien's vision of fantasy supplanted almost all others because of the breadth of his stories. I would say that he certainly was the master of world crafting, but not the Father of fantasy. D&D existed because there was a group of historical gamers who thought it would be cool to re enact the battles of Tolkien's fantasy yes. However, I am fairly certain that they would have re-enacted the battles of Troy, or Thermopylae, Arthur's knights, the Rag' Norok, or Conan, or John Carter of Mars or some other suitably ancient or fantastic setting, had there not been Tolkien. The interest was there with or without Tolkien and would have eventually made it's way to where it is now regardless.

 

Tom Meier's contribution to the world of miniature sculpture is certainyl profound, but I would not dare go as far as to say that Reaper would not exist today without him. That is just absurd. People WERE sculpting before he came along, and I am sure that as the hobby expanded SOMEONE else would have found a better way to sculpt than by blobbing together bits of melted pewter and then carving away at that. I would guess that people would have turned more to dental waxes and polymer clays. There is no one person attributable to the evolution of an entire kind of fiction, or an entire method of craft. Again if the interest is there, SOMEONE will find a way.

 

<MOD>

OK, we can play Six-Degrees-of-Separation with Tolkein,Mythology,Howard, and Spiderman all freaking day. If this thread digresses into debates about who deserves to get medals in our competitons, thsoe posts will be deleted or moved, depending on my mood. Reaper will award which medals we feel encourage the kind of work we are excited about seeing, and honor those individuals that we here determine best fit the category, if any. We may change awards from year to year, so there *may* one year be a Tolkein Award, and a different year a Gygax award, and a different year a Howard award, or we may decide that some people are too childish to imagine that we could honor X and not Y one given year, and stop attempting to honor those whose greatness has inspired generations.

 

CUT.

 

 

IT.

 

 

OUT.

 

Discuss the rules fo the contest here, go HERE to discuss your opinions about "the progenitor of modern fantasy/D&D/Minaitures/MMORPG and anything else".

 

</MOD>

[SIGIL]

I agree with owing a lot to Gary G and Dennis Mize but was kind of dumbfounded by the rest of the post.

I really don't care if Reaper does any memorial awards or not. But, saying they don't owe something directly to Tolkien is Fantasy, as long as Reaper includes the type of elves, dwarfs, orcs, goblins and halflings in their lines that were created by or re-invented by Tolkien they owe a little something. I'm pretty sure halflings and orcs and ents and huorns are all original Tolkien creations and the modern fantasy elf, pointy hat magician, dwarf, goblin et ceteras are all Tolkien interpretation of older folk legends. I'd say without Tolkien, Reaper would never have existed because AD & D wouldn't have.

 

As far as Tom Meier goes, isn't he the guy that pretty much revolutionized miniature sculpting by using and promoting the use of E-Pox-E Putty and then green stuff and was the first to use them as a sculpting mediums. So, that kind of makes him the father of modern miniature sculpting. I'd say without E-Pox-E Putty and green stuff Reaper would be a wholly different company and probably would not even be around in its current form... so they directly owe Tom a great deal considering every sculptor they have has followed his lead on using epoxy.

 

 

Wrong on both counts.

 

Yes the mainstream ideas of modern fantasy ARE just Tolkien rehashes, BUT I do not think it can be said that without Tolkien Fantasy would not exist. It might have turned out differently, but it would certainyl have found it's way into modern popular culture. What about R.E. Howard, who was in my opinion the better write of the two? Or the many other lesser known fantasy writers of the 30's and since. Tolkien's vision of fantasy supplanted almost all others because of the breadth of his stories. I would say that he certainly was the master of world crafting, but not the Father of fantasy. D&D existed because there was a group of historical gamers who thought it would be cool to re enact the battles of Tolkien's fantasy yes. However, I am fairly certain that they would have re-enacted the battles of Troy, or Thermopylae, Arthur's knights, the Rag' Norok, or Conan, or John Carter of Mars or some other suitably ancient or fantastic setting, had there not been Tolkien. The interest was there with or without Tolkien and would have eventually made it's way to where it is now regardless.

 

Tom Meier's contribution to the world of miniature sculpture is certainyl profound, but I would not dare go as far as to say that Reaper would not exist today without him. That is just absurd. People WERE sculpting before he came along, and I am sure that as the hobby expanded SOMEONE else would have found a better way to sculpt than by blobbing together bits of melted pewter and then carving away at that. I would guess that people would have turned more to dental waxes and polymer clays. There is no one person attributable to the evolution of an entire kind of fiction, or an entire method of craft. Again if the interest is there, SOMEONE will find a way.

 

Bad Sigil! No Doughnut!

 

 

 

[olliekickflip]

Yeah, at this point (with all the debating), its a little confusing as to what the "final" rules are. Would it be possible to start a new thread that is locked, that has the "official....final version" of the rules!!!

 

BTW: I CAN'T WAIT FOR REAPERCON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Heisler]

All of the official rules as handed down by Anne really are in the first three posts of this thread. Rules were debated both here and offline and Anne updated those posts as necessary. Really all you need to do is read the rules at the beginning. No need to go digging through this thread, just read them. Then if you have a question ask.

[olliekickflip]

OK, so rule 7. states that we can and can not enter models posted on line or in print??????....I'm just saying that its a little confusing thats all.

 

Also, what about models that had been entered into other contests. It was my impression that the only models you couldn't enter were previous winners. Am I right?

 

 

Not to mention, at a quick glance, I know that rule 2 changed during this discussion and was not updated in the official rules. I'm sure there are more.

[Heisler]

7. Models which have appeared previously online or in publications are not allowed, and such entries will be disqualified in accord with the spirit of the competition (EDIT: it has been decided that models which have been published online or in print are allowed after all, but models previously entered in the competition here at ReaperCon can not enter again. Likewise, models entered this year cannot be entered again next year). The exception is works in progress; models which were featured as works in progress in a forum or article, with no completed picture published, may be entered.

 

Rule 7 includes the original and right at the point where it says edit is where it changes, seems pretty straight forward to me.

 

So if you have a winning entry from a convention other than ReaperCon you can enter it.

 

I don't know what could have possibly changed on rule 2 it is also pretty straight forward and I don't personally recall it being discussed. Doesn't mean it wasn't discussed though it just means I have a lot on my plate.

 

Still the thing is if you have a question about a specific question then ask a specific question. Vague references to discussions don't do us any good. Just ask the question. What question do you have about rule 2?

 

I suspect we won't really see a true FAQ as such until after Genghis Con since we are going to be running a lot of this through the mill at that competition.

[All-Terrain Monkey]

Rule 2 was discussed quite a bit, namely people wanting to do conversions but only have the model judged solely on the paint job, as opposed to being immediately shunted into Open instead of Painter.

[Rastl]

And won't the full, final rules be published on the main site under the ReaperCon stuff?

[Heisler]

Rule 2 was discussed quite a bit, namely people wanting to do conversions but only have the model judged solely on the paint job, as opposed to being immediately shunted into Open instead of Painter.

 

 

Which then begs the question, if you just want to be judged on the paint job why do any conversions at all? Prep work is considered in the judging so if your conversion is bad, i.e. gaps, moldlines, bad joint, that is going to reduce the quality of your work. In the end if you have put in a lot of work on a conversion why take the chance of lowering your chances for a medal by a potentially poor conversion. If the conversion is seamless and looks great why wouldn't you want to have it included in the judging?

[All-Terrain Monkey]

I have no idea, I was just repeating what others asked/wanted/etc.

[eastman]

Rule 2 was discussed quite a bit, namely people wanting to do conversions but only have the model judged solely on the paint job, as opposed to being immediately shunted into Open instead of Painter.

 

 

Which then begs the question, if you just want to be judged on the paint job why do any conversions at all? Prep work is considered in the judging so if your conversion is bad, i.e. gaps, moldlines, bad joint, that is going to reduce the quality of your work. In the end if you have put in a lot of work on a conversion why take the chance of lowering your chances for a medal by a potentially poor conversion. If the conversion is seamless and looks great why wouldn't you want to have it included in the judging?

 

Because in the world of Open System Judging (i.e. MMSI-Chicago, where it all began), doing a conversion is not going to (in and of itself) put your figure into the Open Category. Repositioning the arms, a weapon swap, adding a hat is not what Open is about. An original sculpt - yes. Swapping the bird in Pirate Sophie's hand, not so much.

 

So rule 2 (or whatever number) that automatically moved even the slightest conversion to Open is not the proper spirit of this judging. Painters is about technique, Open is about creativity and setting a scene/telling a story. My introduction to first hand MMSI judging was apprenticing in Historical-Open this past year.

 

 

my 2c