ReaperCon Painting Contest

[Jabberwocky]

I'll chime in that I think this is an excellent idea as well. I think the open concept will prompt many more of us aspiring painters to participate. I also would be interested to get an objective opinion from people I admire in the hobby of where I stand with my painting--ok, good, really good, great. As for the competitive portion, why not simply layer the open portion over the current competitive setup? The open rules stand as is and any piece from any manufacturer is eligible for a medal. The Sophies would only go to Reaper miniatures in the previous categories--single piece, regiment, chronoscope, CAV, large, etc.

[Helltown]

Anne did say that if you couldn't make it by 6pm Friday there would be a chance that you could enter your minis on Saturday morning.

 

I, for one, really like the change in judging formats because I honestly still don't know how I stand as far as the miniature I entered in the '08 ReaperCon competition. I didn't get a Sophie but does that mean I came in dead last? Was I better than average, worse then average? It's really the part I liked least about my time at ReaperCon, the painting competition. The change in judging will be an amazing improvement because now I'll know for sure how well my entries do.

 

The only aspect that I'm really not sure about is opening the competition up to other manufacturers' miniatures, especially in the Painters category. Mostly my concern lies with who gets to define what 'stock' is on the GW miniatures that come with 30+ bits, like the Hill Giant? Will the judges know all the miniatures lines and be able to tell by looking that a figure hasn't been modded from it's original sculpt other than 'bending' to a more dynamic pose?

[Qwyksilver]

Will entrants be able to receive their actual scores and/or commentary, or will they simply be given a medal/certificate?

 

When do we get to see the previews of the medals, and how large will they be?

[Gus Landt]

Is Ordnance a large enough category? Especially without crew, I guess I can't picture anything but a CAV mini or a GW vehicle being entered. Seems like such a small field for an entire category.

[Stubbdog]

Playing Devil's advocate on one possible negative thing not mentioned here yet... that being the fact that since people will only have one model from each category judged and really there are only 2 categories (related to miniatures anyway), do you think that those painters that did come in and paint for each category are no longer going to want to take the time to paint 5-6 different minis, but instead they will only paint 2?

 

Don't get me wrong, I like the new format idea. But you wanted questions, opinions, and devil's advocate postings, so this was mine.

 

Oh, and reading Gus' post, I have to admit that I kinda agree, although i can think of more possibles than what he lists, they would all be scratch built things and not really models.

[Qwyksilver]

Would a warjack or similar warmachine be considered ordinance?

[eastman]

What about following the MMSI pattern on painters vs open a little closer - painters would judge the quality of the painting, without considering the conversion (or even original sculpting) and open would be focused on the concept and composition?

 

To quote the MMSI website on the open system:

 

In the Painters Division, judging is based entirely upon painting skill. Although scratchbuilt and converted figures are not excluded, they are judged as if they were stock commercial castings.

The Open Division, on the other hand, is intended primarily for scratchbuilt and converted figures, vignettes, and dioramas; exhibits are judged on equal measures of imagination and skill.

 

This would keep dioramas made from stock figures in the open catagory.

[kristof65]

In short, though many people don't realize it, Reaper has always been not just pro-themselves, but also pro-HOBBY. Unlike some other companies I could mention, the Reaper owners realize that helping the hobby helps EVERYONE--Reaper, painters, sculptors, other companies, and people who haven't yet embraced the hobby but could if the right subject or product hit them at the right time!

 

Sounds like this has been well thought out, and given all the reasons you've mentioned, I withdraw my reservations about it

 

 

I am a little concerned about allowing previous winners. On one hand, a painter should be able to get all sorts of accolades for a particularly spectacular piece of work they are proud of. On the hand, it seems to cheapen things if someone gathers up all their past winners and enters them.

 

I think I would consider some sort of system that bases it on time and whether the awards won were a national or regional award. For time, I would probably disqualify anything that won any award over a year old - so anything shown in RCon 09 couldn't have won any award prior to RCon 08. That keeps people bring fresher work to the show, without them gathering up old winners to pad their entries.

 

Regional vs national gets a little tricky. For example, I would consider Ghengis and Kubla to be regional cons, and regional painting contests because (AFAIK, I'm sure Kris will correct me if I'm wrong) for the most part, the majority of their painting contest entries come from a 50-100 mile radius of those conventions. Those guys who do well at the regional cons should be encouraged to move on up to a more national level competition, which is what I would consider events at places like GenCon and RCon.

 

 

RE: Ordanance. I would consider space ship minis/models to be part of ordanance as well. This actually really appeals to me, because it would give me a legitimate reason to actually build some of these scratchbuild starship ideas I have floating around in my head.

[Heisler]

While I agree that winners from other competitions being submitted may be contradictory to the spirit in which the contest is intended, I don't think the judges can reasonably be expected to recognize the figures from the many competitions that occur each year. Regardless of their superpowers.

 

I have two worries though. I'm sure Anne's already thought of this one but I'll voice it anyway: will there be enough display space for the multitude of minis this open style is going to elicit? Especially since painters can enter as many figures as they wish. The second point, which is related, concerns the Friday 6 p.m. deadline. I understand you have to cut the entries off at some point to allow enough time for the judging but I have friends whose work may prevent them from getting there in time. It would be a sad thing if they couldn't enter at all due to a lack of space since entries after the deadline will be allowed as space is available.

 

Just trying to be a devil's advocate and troubleshooting.

 

DRG

 

The space issue and security for the display area has been addressed. There should be plenty of room.

 

Although I agree that it would be a bit much for people to recognize past winners you might be surprised by how many the judges are familiar with. Still it would be an honor kind of thing with somekind of disqualification penalty if you get caught doing it. I really do think that painters will follow both the rules and the spirit of the rules.

[Gus Landt]

What about following the MMSI pattern on painters vs open a little closer - painters would judge the quality of the painting, without considering the conversion (or even original sculpting) and open would be focused on the concept and composition?

 

To quote the MMSI website on the open system:

 

In the Painters Division, judging is based entirely upon painting skill. Although scratchbuilt and converted figures are not excluded, they are judged as if they were stock commercial castings.

The Open Division, on the other hand, is intended primarily for scratchbuilt and converted figures, vignettes, and dioramas; exhibits are judged on equal measures of imagination and skill.

 

This would keep dioramas made from stock figures in the open catagory.

Seconded! Allow conversions into the Painter category, with the caveat that it will be treated as if the mini came out of the pack looking like that.

[Fruggs]

What about following the MMSI pattern on painters vs open a little closer - painters would judge the quality of the painting, without considering the conversion (or even original sculpting) and open would be focused on the concept and composition?

 

To quote the MMSI website on the open system:

 

In the Painters Division, judging is based entirely upon painting skill. Although scratchbuilt and converted figures are not excluded, they are judged as if they were stock commercial castings.

The Open Division, on the other hand, is intended primarily for scratchbuilt and converted figures, vignettes, and dioramas; exhibits are judged on equal measures of imagination and skill.

 

This would keep dioramas made from stock figures in the open catagory.

 

 

Umm this kinda sucks for us who want to make a diorama but don't do massive conversions or scratch building.

Also it seems that the painters category is for single figures only.

Also one would assume if someone is entering a paint competition they should have the skills to prep and refine the mini they are working on, not just be judged on execution of it on a poorly cleaned ill prepped mini, if the whole point is to encourage growth, then painters category should be worried about mold lines, and while not flashy basing, basing makes the model look done.

[Gus Landt]

What about following the MMSI pattern on painters vs open a little closer - painters would judge the quality of the painting, without considering the conversion (or even original sculpting) and open would be focused on the concept and composition?

 

To quote the MMSI website on the open system:

 

In the Painters Division, judging is based entirely upon painting skill. Although scratchbuilt and converted figures are not excluded, they are judged as if they were stock commercial castings.

The Open Division, on the other hand, is intended primarily for scratchbuilt and converted figures, vignettes, and dioramas; exhibits are judged on equal measures of imagination and skill.

 

This would keep dioramas made from stock figures in the open catagory.

 

 

Umm this kinda sucks for us who want to make a diorama but don't do massive conversions or scratch building.

Also it seems that the painters category is for single figures only.

Also one would assume if someone is entering a paint competition they should have the skills to prep and refine the mini they are working on, not just be judged on execution of it on a poorly cleaned ill prepped mini, if the whole point is to encourage growth, then painters category should be worried about mold lines, and while not flashy basing, basing makes the model look done.

Prepping (flash & mold line removal) I believe goes without saying in every category. As for diorama's, Eastman's suggestion (if I'm reading it right) would be that you could enter it in either category. If you want your diorama to be judged on the painting, enter it in painter. If you want your diorama to be judged on concept & composition too, enter it in open.

 

just my $0.02 of course.

[Heisler]

What about following the MMSI pattern on painters vs open a little closer - painters would judge the quality of the painting, without considering the conversion (or even original sculpting) and open would be focused on the concept and composition?

 

To quote the MMSI website on the open system:

 

In the Painters Division, judging is based entirely upon painting skill. Although scratchbuilt and converted figures are not excluded, they are judged as if they were stock commercial castings.

The Open Division, on the other hand, is intended primarily for scratchbuilt and converted figures, vignettes, and dioramas; exhibits are judged on equal measures of imagination and skill.

 

This would keep dioramas made from stock figures in the open catagory.

 

 

Umm this kinda sucks for us who want to make a diorama but don't do massive conversions or scratch building.

Also it seems that the painters category is for single figures only.

Also one would assume if someone is entering a paint competition they should have the skills to prep and refine the mini they are working on, not just be judged on execution of it on a poorly cleaned ill prepped mini, if the whole point is to encourage growth, then painters category should be worried about mold lines, and while not flashy basing, basing makes the model look done.

 

But that's the whole point and why preperation has to be considered. A poorly cleaned or ill prepped mini isn't going to look good no matter how good a painter you are. The simpliest way to explain the judging is this: If I'm a judge and I look at a miniature I have five "shelves" on which to place it; a gold shelf, a silver shelf, a bronze shelf, a Certificate of Merit (honorable mention, that's where you will find mine) Shelf and the "not there yet" shelf. Quite frankly if a mini has visible mold lines or is poorly prepped, let's say bad primer. Then there is no way I'm putting it up on the gold shelf, it might get the bronze shelf if the paint job is truly otherwise outstanding and more likely its going on the COM shelf or the Not Ready Yet shelf. Preperation is part of the whole process if you aren't going to do the prep work then you are not doing what it takes to get a medal.

 

Although I may have missed the mark, I keep re-reading your post and have discovered that I'm not really sure what you are trying to say.

 

Basing is an important step and does way into the judging. You need both; no mold lines and finished base to begin to think you are going to medal.

[paintminion]

At MMSI we are asked to think of basing as not part of the judging in our Painters Division--unless it detracts from the model. Bare plywood or spotty painted styrofoam just don't get the job done and judges couldn't help but bring you down for that. A nice simple base done well will do just fine. Now remember, I'm applying this to what I know of MMSI, not ReaperCon! It's up to Reaper to decide how they wish to handle things.

 

Dioramas are usually left up to the entrant...put in Painters Division, it's judged primarily on the painting. Put in Open, it's judged on it's effectiveness as a diorama, whether the models are stock or not.

 

So Painters division isn't just for single models. Open isn't just for conversions. Entrant doesn't always determine which category...judges at MMSI move things to the best advantage of the entrant, for instance, would moving a diorama from painters to Open gain them a Silver there, whereas they'd only get a Bronze in Painter's?

 

So really, the job for this Exhibition is the same for any competition...do your best, make it good from start to finish, push yourself and have fun. None of that changed, only now you can display it all nice and pretty and not be biting your nails over "who" won, just what level did the judges place you at. Doesn't matter how many entries you put in each division, you'll only get one medal per division basically.

[kristof65]

I just have to make a quick comment here. Now that both Ghengis and Reaper have announced they are going to this style of judging, I've actually been considering entering one again for the first time in 15+ years.