Reaper User Vaitalla Posted December 3, 2008 Author Reaper User Share Posted December 3, 2008 Re: Space prohibitions and the Friday 6 p.m. deadline: There will be a LOT of space. Think about it...in past years the number of entries has fit in one large case. Maybe a little cramped, but they fit! Now we are talking shelves one foot deep, three rows of them, on four walls in a 20' by 12' room (which has both diffused natural light and artificial lighting, by the way, so everyone should be able to see the models!). A room ONLY devoted to the painting competition (so happy about this!). Yes, the room is lockable. Yes, we will have "security" people to keep an eye on things when people are in the room. What it comes down to is that I really want to get the bulk of the judging done on Friday night, because there are no classes scheduled after six. It is simply the best time to do it. Thus why we have the hard deadline Friday night and "as space prohibits" on Saturday entries...I do NOT want the usual "oh I can just wait and enter tomorrow so I can work on this all night" scenario and suddenly 80% of the models are turned in Saturday morning, when we will have classes running and NO time to judge that many of them. If someone can not enter on Friday, remember, this is a four-day Con--they can always come up and enter Thursday. We will be accepting entries starting bright and early Thursday morning! In fact, my rationale for this was based on that idea--out of towners will be wanting to get the most out of the Con for that plane flight they just bought, so most of them should be there Thursday or Friday. In-towners who are busy all day Friday should be able to find time to make it up on Thursday. The other answer to this would be allowing a friend to enter someone else's models for them in order to make the deadline...but we would need to consider that, and probably a signed waiver by the artist would be involved. --Anne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristof65 Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 I'm not really a competition painter but I do know what level I want my painting to be at, for my own personal reasons. Therefore if I enter a piece into this competition it's because I feel that it's representative of my best work. If I don't win then I know that what I feel is my personal best isn't what will win a competition. Fine. As long as I'm happy with the end result there's no real loss here. At first, this was me, too. But after several cons worth of contests, I felt no further ahead than I did at my first contest. I knew my painting at the last contest was better than it was at my first one, but it still wasn't good enough to place. I don't know if that's because I was truly bad, or simply that the competition was better. For all I know I may have placed 4th in each one of those competitions - which, if I had, would have inspired me to keep going, but I was never able to find out. Since by that point I was happy with my own painting, I stopped entering. I think the rules change has addressed both camps. The first rank gives awards based on the piece itself. After that you're competing with other pieces deemed to be of the same quality. Agreed. I stopped entering after the first year for several reasons. After reading, re-reading and reading the discussion I might actually bring an entry or two next year. So I would call that an improvement. I'm thinking about it, too. This is making me want to push myself until the point I can get a CoM, something that suddenly seems more attainable than getting a third place against the likes of some of the painters around here. Once that's in hand, I'll decided if I want to push for a Bronze or even higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaper User Vaitalla Posted December 3, 2008 Author Reaper User Share Posted December 3, 2008 Re: Jabberwocky's idea of layering the previous entire competition in--the point was to simplify and shrink the number of categories. Otherwise you get the same old problems with some categories being very strong and hard to win and others being very weak and the Sophies going to models not of the caliber we would like to see. Now, what we ARE considering (Rastl this answers your post too) is giving special awards for things like "Best Warlord Unit"--either a small trophy or unique medal or certificate prize, maybe even paired with a Reaper gift certificate award as a thank-you for supporting our game. All this is still under discussion, but it is a good idea that would give more incentive to paint Reaper stuff, and Warlord in particular! Re: Helltown asking about who gets to define "stock" model, etc...: Technically, a stock figure is one that has been constructed entirely from parts in a given kit, with no conversions involving parts of other models from other kits or additional sculpted details. By that definition, a GW giant, no matter how you construct it, is a stock figure until you introduce parts from an Ogre Kings regiment or some other kit. Your entry form, which sits in front of your miniature, has little check boxes where you mark whether your model is stock, converted, or scratch sculpted. This is mostly as an aide for the viewers--many are the times I have walked past a fantastic model at the MMSI show and was sad because it was marked conversion or scratch (so I knew I couldn't run out and buy it!). This is actually a moot point for the most part, as, after additional discussion with Ed today, we will most likely change the rule in accordance with what George was saying. To wit, putting a model or diorama in Painters--whether it is stock or converted--means you want us to judge you purely on the painting. Putting a model or diorama in Open means you want us to judge it on painting, concept, composition, sculpting, basing, and overall effect. --Anne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaper User Vaitalla Posted December 3, 2008 Author Reaper User Share Posted December 3, 2008 I'm thinking about it, too. This is making me want to push myself until the point I can get a CoM, something that suddenly seems more attainable than getting a third place against the likes of some of the painters around here. Once that's in hand, I'll decided if I want to push for a Bronze or even higher. Just wanted to make a quick interjection that it is exactly this that has been a major motivation for me in getting this system in place here. In Chicago, I watched one of our friends enter and each year get a Certificate of Merit (he may actually have gotten nothing his very first year, I don't remember). Last year he actually got a medal, and very deserved it was! The system gave him feedback that he was moving in the right direction, motivation to keep working, and it rewarded him for improvement. I think that is a wonderful thing for a competition to be able to do! --Anne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristof65 Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Now, what we ARE considering (Rastl this answers your post too) is giving special awards for things like "Best Warlord Unit"--either a small trophy or unique medal or certificate prize, maybe even paired with a Reaper gift certificate award as a thank-you for supporting our game. All this is still under discussion, but it is a good idea that would give more incentive to paint Reaper stuff, and Warlord in particular! "Little Sophies". Seriously, I think it would be cool if those sub-categories got little 30-50mm versions of the big Sophies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaper User Vaitalla Posted December 3, 2008 Author Reaper User Share Posted December 3, 2008 Again...that's me...and it's not MeaperCon... Nope...it's MEEPerCon!!!!!! Sorry, getting thoroughly wacky after a day spent slinging paint and rhetoric! --Anne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dargrin Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Just wanted to give this a bump. I didn't want this to be lost. I have always wanted to go to Reaper Conn but due to financial reasons mostly, I have not been able to attend. I understand that the piece has to be there for judging. Would it be possible if I could get a third party to bring it there to be placed in the competition? I.E another attendee at R-Conn? This is something I have been curious about for a while and just wanted to throw it out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Rodolfo Graziani Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 I'm VERY excited by the new open style rules. I definitely think it'll boost the number of minis submitted, although I seriously doubt if I'll break into my boxes of "other" manufacturers. I think the aspect I like the most is the judging. We'll get to see just where we stand in terms of our skill levels. (not that it'll stop me from bugging Anne with a million questions ). We'll also still get to look at awesome paint jobs, which for me is half the fun of any painting competition. And no one will have to worry about a super painter coming in and sweeping the trophies. Love it! DRG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaper User Vaitalla Posted December 3, 2008 Author Reaper User Share Posted December 3, 2008 Re: Qwik's question about getting active feedback: It is possible that on Sunday we may have time for the judges to all be corralled downstairs in one place so that people can bring their entries up and ask what rating they got or why they placed as they did. Or perhaps we can arrange for people to go to the scoring table to get their numeric score. Re: Ordnance, is it broad enough: Ordnance is a traditional category for shows that have a heavy attendance of historical models, obviously because there are a bunch of people constructing and painting tanks, planes, ships, and automobiles. Some of these may very well show up! In answer to another question, yes, Warmachine warjacks are considered fantasy machines of war, and would go in this category. Reaper's CAV's, Dragonbone Catapult, and the Thunderworm cannon would all go in this category. From GW, not only tanks and troop carriers but dreadnoughts, volley guns, cannons, trebuchets, doomwheels, warp cannons, and chariots are all machines of war! I'd like to put in a small addendum--it's been pointed out to me via email that the letter of the law in Chicago is actually that you can put crew on your Ordnance, but it will not be judged--only the vehicle will be. That should make it easier for someone who's already glued the crew around their Thunderworm to enter it appropriately with zero worries. --Anne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristof65 Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Ok, I have a question about size limits and basing, particularly in the ordanance category. From what I can tell, it looks as if there are none. Does that mean I could put together and paint a spaceship model 3 ft long, and still enter it, so long as it's sitting on a base? Not that I want to, but the rules really look that flexible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaper User Vaitalla Posted December 3, 2008 Author Reaper User Share Posted December 3, 2008 Re: Stubbdog's post: Shame on you, Jason! "Only two related to miniatures" indeed!! I consider a Bretonnian trebuchet, a Tiger III tank. a High Elf Chariot, or a CAV to be miniatures, thank you!! But seriously, yes, people may well paint fewer models, but you know, that's okay! I would honestly rather see two amazing models than six decent ones. And the nature of the Open category is to go all-out crazy, which takes time (unless you are Jeremie! ). And there is an incentive to paint more than one for each category; it gives the judges more choices as to what to score. If they really aren't thrilled by your first model, they may really like your second. I can't tell you the number of times I have had two or three great ideas...all for one category. This way, if you have the time, you can do all of them, and the judges will pick the one which gives you the best chance of getting an award. I have a small clarification/revision on this rule, too: I've been reminded that the judges in the Open System can also choose to judge someone's entire display, or a portion thereof, if they feel that all of the models in it are equally worthy of merit. For example, I think it was Sue who had several of her "female warriors" picked out of her Painters display and judged as a group in Chicago. So if you want to do a "theme" (monsters, beautiful 54mm women, Napoleonic cannons), go for it! This is also a good place to note that you can bring a backdrop or drape for your entries. So if you feel that you want your minis displayed on black velvet, or your Celt really needs to stand on a piece of tartan, and you build a small structure to drape it over for your minis to sit in or on, that's all good! --Anne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaper User Vaitalla Posted December 3, 2008 Author Reaper User Share Posted December 3, 2008 Ok, I have a question about size limits and basing, particularly in the ordanance category. From what I can tell, it looks as if there are none. Does that mean I could put together and paint a spaceship model 3 ft long, and still enter it, so long as it's sitting on a base? Not that I want to, but the rules really look that flexible. Absolutely, and that'll fit just fine on the center table. And if we have to add another table at the back of the room for more big entries, that's peachy! We really want to see some awesome entries! Some of those Forge World resins are HUGE--especially the vehicles--but they are gorgeous and if you want to paint one up and drag it here to enter, more power to you! --Anne p.s. I will honestly try to get to everyone's questions, but it's about "go home" time for me now...so you may have to wait until tomorrow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintminion Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 You're doing fine Anne....plenty of time to hash everything out. I do want to remind EVERYONE though - think of the prizes as Manufacturer Awards ( Reaper appropriately), but the rest are not winners or losers, they are gold medalists, silver, bronze or certificates. As far as motivation goes, I've found this system to motivate me a great deal. Despite being stuck on the Silver shelf, I've grown and certainly hounded the judges for feedback. For the most part, their best advice is to look at what won gold and really "see" it. So now that my illness is mostly behind me, I've brought my painting up to almost Gold. I was 1 point away... I'm not worried about anyone else, only me and my work, and the opportunity to show it off to other enthusiasts. So...if you need to know what's a Silver, well, that's my Dryad from ReaperCon. I would say that most everything that placed last year should be looked at as Gold or near gold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haldir Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 The thought of having a different manf & a Reaper in the contest makes for a interesting situation, one I'm thinking of doing. This way it'll show what I how good I can do Reaper figs & other figs, & see which one I've done better on. ha ha. Still digesting everything...... RM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gus Landt Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Just wanted to give this a bump. I didn't want this to be lost. I have always wanted to go to Reaper Conn but due to financial reasons mostly, I have not been able to attend. I understand that the piece has to be there for judging. Would it be possible if I could get a third party to bring it there to be placed in the competition? I.E another attendee at R-Conn? This is something I have been curious about for a while and just wanted to throw it out there. PLEASE NOTE that even though it says Reaper next to my name, I am not giving any sort of an official answer to this. I am answering as just a regular Joe. Currently, this would not be allowed due to "Rule #5. Painters must personally submit all entries. " This rule was put in place long ago to make it fair for the people who make the financial sacrifice to come to the con. Obviously it is more "fair" to local painters than to anyone 1000+ miles away, and also more "fair" to the people for whom it is not much of a financial sacrifice. However, we do get people from all over the world, and it could be considered unfair to them if we allowed people to just send in their work. That does indeed set a dangerous precedent, as if that trend caught on, it could hurt the Con. (not likely, I know, but still...) There are plenty of online painting competitions for people who cannot make Cons. I don't mean that in any snarky or condescending manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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