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The black knight


Tiarnan
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While I truly believe the "core" rules work excellently for tournament play, I do think the addition of modified units to competition is flavorful and I've yet to see it unbalance any event.

 

With that said I offer this solution... Would it help to designate the competition into 2 categories?  There could be a "stock" unit event, and then an "open" category event where players could modify their units (wysiwyg, of course).

 

:D

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Well, what if I decided that:

 

Suppresion is far to devastating, so the -2 Modifier is not applied to anything except another suppression roll.

 

The Ranged Attack Damage Table is really too complicated to remember and use.  Instead, for every point differance on the die rolls, you do a DT to the target.

 

Tie rolls in Target Lock should go to the attacker.

 

Also, this section thing, is really confusing.  I'm going to use one card for each individual non-CAV model, and two for each CAV.  CAVs will get two full actions.

 

 

Get the picture?  

 

By not allowing modified units, etc. in a BL Demo Team event and/or actively discouraging them, you are putting your personal preferances over the published CAV rules.  When you do this, you are no longer promoting CAV, IMO.  You are, concisously or sub-concisously, deciding that the rules are wrong and your interpretation of them is right.  Your player's will look at you as a leader, the CAV expert, and follow your example.  When you forbid certain units during league play, like Heavy Mortars for example, you have just ensured that Reaper won't sell Heavy Mortars to your players.

 

There is no reason why CAV can't be at the same level that GW or MW:DA is.  What did WhizKidz have at Origins, 60+ tables and full every time they had a tournament event.  We had seven tables total.  

 

Why doesn't CAV have the same numbers?  We reach an equal number of stores.  We have the same number of potential consumers.  Our product is of a compare price and quality.  I ask players at cons who are playing in the RTs and WhizKidz events why they play, and I get a lot of the same answers time and again: fair and structured play with the same set of rules.  They know they are not going to get taken advantage of, cheated or otherwise have a bad time playing the game.  If you don't think that isn't important, ask around about MechFarce (Force) North America.

 

 

the Rulebook does state that it is up to the event organiser what they allow (in terms of customisations and the like).

 

What page is this on?  I can't seem to find anything like that in my copies of the rulebook, 1st or 2nd printing.  And, yeah, you are going to have to prove it to me.  I'm not a Bicycle Irishman, especially when it comes to you Brits.  I've supported, and proven, my thesis that modifications should be allowed because the rulebook states it as a core rule.

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Frank

"To see what I mean, take the Rhino. It's tough as nails and it'll put you in a world of hurt any day of the week and twice on sunday, but with 32" range and slow movement, it's balanced the powerful guns and heavy armour. The same goes for the Dictator 2/BL Dictator, you have to take damage by engageing Emergency Power in order to get that cool statline."

 

The Dictator 2 is the most unbalancing unit in the game the points way to low for the unit.  And the Point damage is worth it most situations were the unit is Fresh.  Since you also get that bonus in DF.

 

Point is the know flaw logic doesn't work.

 

As to mods.   As long as people pay the penilty points for weapons mod's I am all for letting them use them.

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I feel that CAV is uniquely suited to allow variants in tournament play.  There is always a certain amount that you do not know about your opponent's force, and you have to prepare for the unexpected.  Crew upgrades, and upgrades to internal systems and the like are not outwardly visible. I like this as it adds an extra element to your strategy and force construction.  Weapon swaps are the same idea, but you have to physically model the changes.  I don't think this breaks the game.  In the what I have played, I feel that it adds to it.

 

From the standpoint of the CAV 'Universe' we have the Warmaster tournament where elite groups many of which field customized CAVs compete in a highly publicised fashion.  This will make those with the capability to do so more likely to make these modifications, as it has become expected or a symbol of status.

 

On the other end we have pirates, breakers and salvagers who can field units, but do not always have steady supply lines.  A player can represent these groups by swapping systems with more reliable ones or ones that do not rely on ammo.

 

We also have units built with specific purposes in mind.  Suppose a person wants to field a unit with high endurance that does not require much resupply.  They can build some Black Knights with improved repair units.

 

My point is that if a person wants to use them in a tournament setting, and has done the sawing and glueing, and has done the math correctly, they should be allowed to field these units.  In addition to supporting the building and painting side of the hobby, I for one would love opportunity to kill or be killed by something a different and clever.

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Tiarnan... VERY well stated... I TOTALLY agree with you!!!

 

My call sign (Super Jag) is based on modifications made to the stock Jaguar unit.  I consider it my favorite model (re: aesthetics) and I love to play the model because it is unique to me.  Of course I lose points because I'm paying more to have a modified unit but NO ONE who has seen it in action would call it broken (quite honestly I'd be better off paying fewer points and would gain more advantages by using a stock Duelist which essentially is what my Super Jaguar is).  

 

I'm quite willing to use other models with better stat's but I really enjoy my "Super Jaguar."  I'm the type who plays to win, but more importantly I'll play units that I ENJOY playing.  Heck I've shown up to more than half of my competitions with units in my roster just because I've never played them yet. And to show how balanced this game is, while using unfamiliar units I've never finished worse than 2nd in any event (and yes there were more than 2 people in those events).  Call it what you will.

 

I won't mention names or places but the only frustrating tournament experience I've had was the result of the BLO implementing his version of the rules, which contradicted the intentions and rules of the game.  Needless to say, the atmosphere of the event was smogged.  

 

Frankly, I don't understand why people can't accept the game for what it is?  Actually, I do, and everyone I know shares this opinion:  People who try to fix what is not broken seem to have this in common... They're losers who have nothing better to do with their miserable lives than to attempt to exert control over any little thing they can get their hands on.  

 

Here's a thought from a newbie: I got into the Black Lightning program because I believe in the CAV system and Reaper's dedication to its customers.  While I love to conjure up interesting extensions to the games, I wholeheartedly accept the core rules/intentions because they absolutely work!!!  In fact, they work so well I'm about to go play another game of CAV with my 5 year old son.

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Now now, there's no reason to start namecalling here.  You only lose credibility when you call people losers over a matter of opinion.

 

You can show self-control when creating units.  I applaud you for that.  If your area supports your play-style, that's even better.  Howerver, anyone with any wargaming experience knows there are people who can't show the same control.

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Jeneki makes a good point... I really don't mean to name call and perhaps my wording should have been more tactful.  My comment was meant as a generalization that doesn't apply to everyone with a difference of opinion.

 

Still, maybe those who take offense to it should consider WHY and whether the truth hurts?  

 

Jeneki... as per your comment... you confirm my statement.  Why is it that some people can't show similar control?  Could it be because they "seem" to have something in common... i.e.: a non-productive lifestyle that leaves them yearning to have some impact in life and the problem manifests itself in the form of "gaming micromanagement?"

 

I hope that was more tactful.  Thanks for reminding me that typewritten words may not send the same message one intended them too.

 

:p

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This is the only thing I find unfair about it. This is copied from another post by me ...

 

I do disagree with the 20% rate for buying from you own UCOR and here is why. I want to make a fast CAV (speed 24) with a +6/+X gun, so I take a challenger take of it's weapons and add guns from the chancellor paying the 20% surcharge for doing so. My opponent wants to do the same thing but he has a Starhawk V and on checking finds he doesn't have SyRam +6/+X to use as there aren't any for heavy CAVs so he has to buy one from elsewhere. However he has to pay a 50% surcharge. How is this fair ? Points are ment to be for balancing games that 30% difference is there to support fluff. I think all system/weapon upgrades should be paid for at the 20% rate or 50% but not some of one some of another.

 

Stuart

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SOldcorn... you bring up an interesting thought about the 20-50% cost increases.  I certainly understand the added cost for buying product from another manufacturer, but would one necessarily have to buy products from their own manufacturer at a higher rate??? Hmmm... I don't know business very well.  Good thing it's not the "medical" field otherwise the cost would be about 300 percent extra...he-he-he.

 

Still, the 20% and 50% increases do work fine and my guess is that it keeps the stock units from being obsoleted.  Otherwise there's not much point in selling models in blisters.  The alternative would be to sell individual components and have players create their own units right from the start.  That might not be what many players want out of a game.  That's just my hypothesis... can any of the Reaper employees enlighten us?

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From same manufacturer you are paying a premium to take components to overcome a weakness in your model but you're buying from a smaller pool with fewer options.

 

From all manufacturers you are able to select the optimal component from a large pool of manufacturers to overcome a weakness in your model. Since you have access to a wider array of parts from which to select, you pay a higher premium.

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Could someone post a unit that has swaps that gives an unfair advantage?

I don't think the 'swapping' of parts is unfair or unbalanced.

 

Because there needs to be a level of conversion artestry involved.  In the case of the 'Super Jag,' it evidently has Duelist arms on it, right?  Now, how you get the armor cowlings to fit right with the Jaguar Torso is where the artestry happens.  The appropriate use of Green stuff, ect.

And, you still pay that premium.

 

Now, one can say that by simply removing unneeded components, like the IFM packs from a Dicator, to save on points.  This can be viewed as unfair or unbalanced.

Removal of the IFM pack does not really alter the offensive performance of the Machine.  It doesn't cost anything more, in fact it makes the machine cheaper.  And, it requires little artesty if any (a dramel should do the trick).

 

Now, I'm not for certain that this is Legal.  But, I've heard of it being done elsewhere.

Matt, is a player required to fill all empty component slots on a model?

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Matt, is a player required to fill all empty component slots on a model?

I'm not catching your meaning. Could you elaborate a bit?

Using my Dictator Example above-

If I remove the IFM pack from it, am I required to fill that now-empty slot with another secondary weapon of some sort?

 

More preceisely, a Dictator is 306 points.  The IFM pack is 24 points.  When you break it right down, the IFM pack is only of real use to that Dictator in the early game when the ranges and LOS prevent Direct Fire Attacks.

By removing this IFM pack, the Dictator's cost is now 282 points.  Because that IFM pack is rarely used in the later game, the Dictator's overall offensive profile is unchanged.  It is instead made better, because it is now cheaper to field.

 

One could argue that by doing this to the Battlefield Superiorities in one's entire army, you could save enough points to purchase a few Veterans, maybe even an Elite Crewman, without compromising the army's firepower against a comperably priced Regular, Stock army.

 

Could this be considered abusive?

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Clarification for Black Lightning 2 regarding my "Super Jag."

 

Basically the only changes I made to it were to add a Borsig-Spline Bergholm 22 breeder unit and I added an ECCM Pod.  Other than that it is the same.  I compare it to the Duelist because statistically it is the little bro' version of a Duelist now.  Duelist has slightly better armor and guns, whereas the Super Jaguar has slightly better movement and ECM.  

The end cost is 300 points instead of 236.  Add a +1 pilot and it costs 4 more points than the comparable Duelist.  

 

Like I said before, I actually pay more points for it in the end but I really like the model and was having fun implementing upgrades. Nothing real special, just fun for me.

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