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GreyHorde

Reaper DHL 2991: Ghost King

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Once you explanined the direction of the OSL, it makes sense. I like the idea of facing the torchlight, although I'm not sure I'd like to come across this guy in dark alley! I also think the skull is very well done and the sword is awesome.

Thank you; invoking a fear of meeting him in a dark place is just what I was hoping for.

 

Oh my goodness, that sword and its OSL!!!

That's exactly what I'm after for a miniature of mine: Agramon the pit fiend Reaper (the fireball in his hand: I wanted to colour it like green fire, since I have the filling that red would stand out too much from the colour of the demon itself, which I want to make dark blue). I hope you don't mind if I use this piece as reference for mine, it's not exactly copying, or is it? and anyway your piece is just about too right for not being taken as inspiration.

Go for it! Copy away, I don’t mind a bit. Actually, I hope you’ll improve on it, because I still see a lot of mistakes in mine. Sounds great, with the dark blue demon and all. One suggestion, if I may – a green fire next to the blue demon might blend together a bit, since blue and green are close together on the color wheel. To make the colors really ‘pop’ or contrast, you might look for the flames to be the complement of blue, which would be orange. Maybe you could go with traditional flames on the weapon and contrast it with non-traditional demon skin. If the blue leans toward purple, especially in the shadows, you can keep some yellow in the flames (complementary colors again). In the Ghost King, that’s partly why the sword stands out so much – there is strong contrast between the light green and the dark red on the robes & gems. Red & green are complementary, but the tones are far enough apart that you may not notice them at first.

 

Sorry, now I’ve digressed into color theory. Again, it’s just a suggestion for Agramon. Do what you want, what you like. Have fun with it. For all I know, you may have other plans for the piece for complements and contrast, so I may be way off base. Either way, give it a whirl and post up in Works in Progress if you want help & suggestions along the way. I look forward to seeing what you come up with!

 

 

Impressive work Dave.

Now I can see even better the concept, we talked about of the stripe of solid white representing the highest point of light. In the sword the central white line is not perceived by the eye as white, but rather than green light too intense to stand: the lightest green! thank you for the tip!

What can I say about a piece like this? I have nothing to objet to. Only one question, how did you do the wear of the cloth? your beloved reaper smoke, maybe?

In the end, great work and hope to see more of them, quoting you: "Keep 'em coming"

You’re quite welcome. I am glad to share the few useful tips I can give, and glad you like this piece so much. I just wish I had brought it with me Saturday so you could see it first hand, but I had just finished painting late the night before and wanted to give it at least 24 hours before varnishing. I still need to do that, but there has been too much rain and cold, lately. As for the weathering on the cloth areas, no, there was no Smoke on this one. The sculpt itself indicates some tears and holes, so I hit those and some other spots with black and grey on the cloak and browns & reds on the robes.

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I like the overall feel of this piece, and the two light sources work well, since they have different colors and are on different sides of the figure. Nice work.

 

I would add some glints of light green to simulate light reflecting off of the points of his shoulder armor, helmet, etc. These reflections will really punch up the effect that the sword is casting its own light. If the metal is supposed to be shiny silver (like a mirror), then use the very same color that you used on the sword blade. On darker metal, gold, bronze, etc, change the color of the green reflections slightly, by whatever is appropriate. For example, the reflections of even the brightest white light off of a gold or bronze object aren't white, they are yellow or brownish. I think we all take artistic license by "highlighting up to white" even when it isn't accurate, but just be deliberate about being inaccurate :;):.

 

And to show off your OSL work better (and simply to enhance the effect of the tomb king being in his unlighted tomb), it might help to make the background of your photo darker than usual.

 

Derek

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I like the overall feel of this piece, and the two light sources work well, since they have different colors and are on different sides of the figure. Nice work.

Thank you!

 

I would add some glints of light green to simulate light reflecting off of the points of his shoulder armor, helmet, etc. These reflections will really punch up the effect that the sword is casting its own light.

I guess I'm on the right track, then, just didn't ride the train far enough. :huh: The same greens were used on the shoulder plates and helmet, they're just not strong enough to see on their own, apparently. Camera angle is also a little low to see them because the top of the helmet is definitely greenish on the sides facing the sword. It's the closest object to the blade and facing a flat side, so it gets the strongest, most direct light. I imagined the blade emitting less light along the edges, more at a 90 degree angle to the flat surfaces. That may be putting too fine a point on it, but that was my thought process. Still, yes, thank you. I will go back and take the glints up another notch or two.

 

If the metal is supposed to be shiny silver (like a mirror), then use the very same color that you used on the sword blade. On darker metal, gold, bronze, etc, change the color of the green reflections slightly, by whatever is appropriate. For example, the reflections of even the brightest white light off of a gold or bronze object aren't white, they are yellow or brownish. I think we all take artistic license by "highlighting up to white" even when it isn't accurate, but just be deliberate about being inaccurate :;):.

Very good points, thank you. As always, in a few words you convey the essence of a technique in clear and useful terms. One question, though - can I take 'deliberate' to mean both thinking through each area and consistently executing the effect across the mini? I think I see the inconsistencies better, now - white in some highlights, more green in others, without always deliberately considering all the factors of intensity and hue. Hmmm...food for thought.

 

The armor was intended to look like aged, dark steel with silver trim. Not rusted steel, not super-tarnished silver, just old and a bit dusty. Not reflective like a mirror, but having enough shine left on the silver to pick up the light sources and reflect some of their colors, while the steel would do the same to a lesser degree. The helmet was intended to be slightly shinier, a little less tarnished than the armor, but I think my attempt at NNM gold turned out a little muddy. I got the highlights to white in the sidelight, greenish on the top (not shown partly due to camera angle), but I don't think the darker contrasts are deep enough or close enough to the highlights. I may have to revisit some of those.

 

This is where I get confused. I have neither a shiny gold object handy for reference, nor one to glow with a diffused green light so I can see what color the gold reflects in that situation. Thinking it through, then, if the gold would alter reflected light toward yellow/brown, wouldn't it tint the green toward blue? Do I need to shift the highlights on the gold a bit toward blue, then? Or should I just glaze over the gold with light greens and let the gold/brown underneath shift the light as needed? At risk of answering my own question, I think maybe that's the key. It seems like painting translucent cloth over skin; 'underpainting' the skin tones first and repeatedly glazing with the cloth color until the desired balance between opacity and translucency is achieved.

 

And to show off your OSL work better (and simply to enhance the effect of the tomb king being in his unlighted tomb), it might help to make the background of your photo darker than usual.

 

Heh heh Yet again I think I was on the right track and jumped off at the wrong station. I tried solid black both as a photo backdrop (ugh) and as a 'shopped backround. Various grey backgrounds were also tried, but I settled on this one thinking it was dark enough without a surreal look or halo effect. After I do some more work on the mini, I'll shoot new pics and try black and very dark grey backgrounds, see if that helps.

 

Again, I appreciate all the comments and advice. At risk of quoting Emeril, 'Let's kick it up a notch!'

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Glad to help. From seeing your past work and talking with you at Gen Con, I know that you have a lot of good ideas but sometimes need a little nudge pushing the new techniques beyond what feels comfortable. :;):

 

When doing colored OSL on metallic surfaces (NMM or true metals), applying a colored glaze over the metal won't give the right effect. Broad glazes like that would work for cloth or other matte surfaces, but what you see on a metal surface is mostly a reflection of all the stuff around it (and tinged by the color of the metal itself). The colors that you use on the metal surfaces shouldn't have that different color unless the stuff around it is reflecting that color back to the metal and then back to your eye. Probably only a very small part of the metal object should be painted with the color of the light-source. Dab the metal object with just a few glints of bright reflected light: hold the mini in front of you and imagine which surfaces (or maybe corners or points along an edge) would reflect that light back to your eye.

 

I think the reflection of a green light off of a gold or bronze object wouldn't be blue, but rather a yellower or duller/browner version of the green, respectively: in both cases, a little darker than the paint that you used for the light source, but still the brightest point(s) on those objects.

 

I don't have a real gold or silver object to use as a precedent for NMM work, either, but two pencils here on my desk have different colored ferrules: one is yellow (brass) while the other is silvery. And the doorknobs in my apartment are a dull brushed brass so I've looked at how they reflect the white light coming from my window; etc.

 

Derek

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TERRIBLE! TERRIBLE! DO IT AGAIN HORDE! JUST PLAIN AWFUL! Im messing with you. You know my true thoughts (DROOL comes to mind) having seen this mini in person. This pic doesn't do it justice lol.

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Glad to help. From seeing your past work and talking with you at Gen Con, I know that you have a lot of good ideas but sometimes need a little nudge pushing the new techniques beyond what feels comfortable. :;):

You remember that? Aw, dang. :blush: Just kidding. Actually, I think you are spot on, there. Quite true, so nudge away. If I don't move far enough or fast enough, exchange nudging for a swift kick, if you think that's what I need. Subtlety is sometimes lost on me.

 

Thanks for the good advice on light reflections, too. I will dig into the subject and the model more deliberately this weekend. I finally broke down and bought Series 7's, so this will be a good excuse to start using them.

 

 

TERRIBLE! TERRIBLE! DO IT AGAIN HORDE! JUST PLAIN AWFUL! Im messing with you. You know my true thoughts (DROOL comes to mind) having seen this mini in person. This pic doesn't do it justice lol.

 

Heh heh Thanks, man. Remember, though, that you may see it that way because the photos aren't that great, and also because it's true about pretty much any mini you see online - pics never do justice to the real thing. Showing a 1" mini as 4" tall on a computer monitor has at least two major effects: like any 3D object on a 2D screen, it messes with your depth perception, distorting the image somewhat vs. real life. There's an old adage about TV making people look 15 lbs heavier than they really are. The second effect is to magnify errors the eye just won't see under normal conditions. A brushtroke 0.5mm off-center suddenly appears to be 2mm off when seen on the screen. An unnoticeable wobble in a freehand swirl suddenly looks like a shiny blortch of a different color. The viewer doesn't have the option of moving the model or himself to change the angle and see if it's a trick of the light, so they are forced to adjust their thinking for scale and decide if it's a problem with the photo or the paint. I guess that's actually three effects, and I'm sure there are more, but who's counting?

 

Just wait until you go to a big convention and see first hand the insanely good stuff. You'll probably want to burn my brushes after that. :rolleyes:::P:

 

Edit: quick update - I will not be able to work on it this weekend due to a death in my family.

Edited by GreyHorde

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Any chance for a recipe on the sword? I keep coming back to this and staring at it. I have a dwarf in a current game with a "blue-bladed axe", I'd like to try the same technique.

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Any chance for a recipe on the sword? I keep coming back to this and staring at it. I have a dwarf in a current game with a "blue-bladed axe", I'd like to try the same technique.

For the blade? RMS Spring Greens triad with Pure White. Can't tell you a drop-for-drop recipe because I use a wet palette and just blend until I see what I like. From dark to light:

Moth Green

Moth Green + Spring Green

Spring Green

Spring Green + Luminous Green

Luminous Green

Luminous Green + Pure White

Pure White

 

There are various glazes along the way to push shades down and highlights up, or to smooth out transitions. The key to the 'glow' effect on the blade was mainly to forget directional lighting and just push the darkest colors toward the hilt and the edges of the blade, progressing to the center and tip as lighter green up to pure white.

 

Now, I finally got around to implementing all those great suggestions. I pushed up the highlights on the cloak toward the 'lantern' light, more of the green spots on the top areas close to the sword, and photographed the model on black. While shooting new pics, I worked out a way to use a black backdrop with a single side light (for the front pics, plus a spot for the upper part on the back shot). I think I rather like the effect. It's not perfect, but I'm learning.

 

Anyway, here are the final shots:

 

post-2299-1240789971.jpg

 

post-2299-1240789976.jpg

 

post-2299-1240790038.jpg

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This is incredible! I just picked up the hobby. Have only painted 2 minis this far, but I just picked this guy up and when I see work like this I'm truly inspired to push myself in hopes of one day painting at this caliber. Extemely impressively!! I do have a non paint oriented question about the base? How did you get him on that base and make it seem so flush and flat? I'm about to base my second miniature I painted (reaper ice troll) and am curious how u made it seem as though he's on a completely different base than what he comes on. Thanks!

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That is an astounding paint job!  I LOVE the sword especially, it looks so realistic and that colour is beautiful.  The rest of the mini is stunning as well, you have phenomenal skills.  I am still learning about OSL, hopefully one day I will be able to do something like this!

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Wow, like the Ghost King himself, this thread has arisen from the shadows.  Thanks, all, for the kind words.  To be honest @Sushiroll, I don't really remember the base.  Dang, has it really been 8 years?  Okay, hang on a sec, I'll look...oh, yeah, I see now.  I cheated!  :-)  Or took the lazy easy way out, if you prefer.  The square base is a recessed-top, pewter number Reaper used to make before the price of tin went through the roof.  The recess is a little deeper than the current plastic versions, so I glued the figure's base into the bottom of the square metal base, then surrounded it with greenstuff pushed around to mimic the original's flagstones.

 

Welcome to the hobby, and keep painting!

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