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pae

Why bother?

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PAE, I think you have posed some good questions, here. First, though, I have some questions of my own to make sure I understand the process correctly. Are the minis you pitch generally painted by you, or by other people? Are they fully completed or partially painted? Are the models themselves new(-ish) and still in production or otherwise readily available to you, or older pieces? Can you describe in detail the thought process you go through? I mean, what causes you to send a mini from your paintbrush to the landfill instead of any one of a dozen alternatives?

 

Second, on the specifics of stripping a mini, how much time are you actually spending on it? Why is it taking so long? Have you really considered your methods? I mean, soaking time aside, 5 minutes of rinsing & scrubbing with a toothbrush should be all that's needed. Occasionally a few more minutes with dental picks or other pointy objects will be needed, but that's still not a lot of time invested in it.

 

Besides, if there is a tiny hint of primer left in some of the deepest recesses, so what? It's not burying detail. You are just going to put a new coat of primer on top of it, anyway, right? Is a second coat of primer in those tiny areas really going to ruin a mini to the point where your basecoat(s) and/or multiple glazes won't hide it? The metal is unaffected, the sculpt didn't change, so seriously, does it really make a difference, physically, or do you have an OCD-type of need to know that all traces of primer are gone, back to bare metal, before you can move to the next step? I mean the next step is primer, after all, so if you've got traces of it already in some areas, a controlled application of brush-on primer for everything else should be sufficient to get it back to paintable, right? Why waste the effort you spent on prepping it to begin with by tossing it in the trash?

 

My opinion: not every last trace of all prior primer has to be 100% removed to get a smooth, paintable surface. If you primed it to begin with, you know it's a smooth job with quality primer, so the only issue with it is in your head. If this is for practice, show, sale or whatever, then leave it alone and move on. Just dry it, prime it and paint it. Replace the model only if some or all of the following are true:

  • This is your Ultimate, A #1 Best Ever for a major competition.
  • Experience tells you that some detail is lost, the remaining primer sacrifices surface texture or would otherwise be visible to the judges
  • It's for a comp, you're flat up against a deadline and cannot wait for the stripping solution to work, leaving you no choice but to replace the model with a duplicate and start from scratch or to find a different piece to paint.
  • You have completely lost interest in the model and have no plans to paint it ever again

Beyond that, I see no reason why stripping a mini should be so problematic. Again, I completely disagree that leaving a mini to soak for a few days is some big investment of time. A few seconds to toss 'em in, then I move to other projects. When I return from the other projects, a few minutes to fish 'em out & scrub 'em down seems to me less actual effort than even 15 minutes per mini with more caustic methods. I see it like a self-cleaning oven - kick it on, go do something else for a while and when you come back, all the real work is done for you.

 

Suggestions: spend a few minutes and a couple of dollars to find stripping material that works for the brands of paint and primer you generally use or run into. Example: I stripped 3 minis in 10 minutes yesterday. They were new/demo jobs or metal Reaper minis soaked in Purple Power. Primers, paints and varnishes removed:

  • Primers: RMS Brush-On, old (5+ years) Armory spray, Krylon
  • Paints: RMS, RPP, Citadel, VMC, VGC, craft paints (Plaid?)
  • Sealants: RMS Brush-On Sealer (mixed in RMS Brush-On Primer), Testors Dullcote

Wow. That was waaaaay more than I intended to write on stripping minis. Sorry. My point is that if you are spending more time stripping a mini than prepping it, you're doing something wrong.

 

Back to my original questions, then: how, when and why does tossing a mini seem like the best option?

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The minis I have stripped recently have cost more than $4-5, so it's definitely an economic hit for me to just toss it. Some of them I am satisfied with, and the ones that I am not I am bringing to Reapercon to trade in for a fresh cast. Case in point, Egyptian Sarcophagus 2724 is $25, and the detail on it is so fine I will never get it all cleaned. If I re-prime it I will lose the fine detail.

 

Aside from that, if I were to toss a figure, then I'd have to re-order it and it would be a week or two before I'd have a new one to paint. So there's more than just stripping time involved.

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I dislike unnecessary waste. It offends me. And throwing away something that someone else would be pleased to have, would even pay you for, is certainly unnecessary. That attitude is indicative of much that is wrong with modern society as a whole. That's what I believe, anyway.

That pretty much sums it up for me as well.

 

Plus, what you consider crap would make a lot of DDM fans very happy - even if they have incomplete paint jobs. If you don't want to go through the hassle of stripping and re-prepping, I can surely understand that, but you could sell your throw aways in lots of 5-10 and make some of that money back for yourself, or donate it to charity.

 

Hmm - an idea.

 

Instead of throwing all of those ones you get disatisified with away, give them to Kris, and have him auction them off at the next Ghengis for charity.

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you could get a bunch of broke painters together in a bunch and toss them out like a bouquet at a wedding.

 

That would be fun to see.

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you could get a bunch of broke painters together in a bunch and toss them out like a bouquet at a wedding.

 

That would be fun to see.

 

 

epically one with "spikey-bits" on it :blink:

 

I don't strip minis that often (then again I don't paint that often), but I have stripped car model bodies before & for me it comes down to cost. I mean if I paid say $20+ bucks for a model & the paint I used on it doesn't come out right & I know my stripper of choice will take it off, then by all means I'll strip it. If not then I'm out $20+ bucks. I had a small disaster happen a couple months ago. I had a rollcage from a Tamiya Pennzoil NISMO on the counter & it was out of the way or at least I thought it was. Well my daughter came home from school upset over something & she slammed her backpack down on said counter & well force vs simple plastic rollcage = CRUNCH!.

 

Now I need to get that entire model again (also doesn't help that some decals went crappy on me as well) due to that small but simple mishap. I could kinda live without some of those decals, as they were interior stuff (ie can't be seen to much) but the cage is something you can see from the windows & such.

 

Again it just comes down to cost for me. I know one thing if I strip a mini or model, it's hard for me to go back & paint that mini. Probably one reason why I've never called myself a army-painter. Once I touch a mini & paint it up. I probably will never paint anther one.

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The minis I have stripped recently have cost more than $4-5, so it's definitely an economic hit for me to just toss it. Some of them I am satisfied with, and the ones that I am not I am bringing to Reapercon to trade in for a fresh cast. Case in point, Egyptian Sarcophagus 2724 is $25, and the detail on it is so fine I will never get it all cleaned. If I re-prime it I will lose the fine detail.

 

Aside from that, if I were to toss a figure, then I'd have to re-order it and it would be a week or two before I'd have a new one to paint. So there's more than just stripping time involved.

At risk of derailing this thread further into disussions of stripping materials and primer...well...see, that's exactly what I'm talking about. ::): (A) If the stripper leaves primer in fine detail, then perhaps the stripper is the problem? (B) If a second coat of primer would lose fine detail, then maybe the second coat of primer is too thick? Try brush-on primer instead of spray and thin it down to the consistency of paint - the old 'skim milk' target comes to mind. Remember, primer does not have to be opaque (white or black) to work. A primer's #1 purpose in life is to stick to the metal and give it a little tooth, something for the paint to grab hold of. Underpainting is really only secondary. If the metal still shows through underneath the primer, that's okay, just take the new color of underpainting into consideration when choosing your basecoat color.

 

Here's one more 'trick' I have used to good effect, IMHO - on the palette, mix a little RMS Brush-On Primer and a touch of RMS Brush-On Sealer (and maybe a brushtip of RMS Anti-Shine Additive) into your first basecoat color. What does that do? Gives you a tinted primer / paint with a little tooth, seals & toughens the layer and cuts the shine (from the sealer), all in one fell swoop. Or skip the sealer & ASA and just mix paint & primer. It takes a little experimentation to get the right mix for the color chosen, but it does work. After that, one more run with the basecoat color minus the additives and it's usually good to go.

 

We apologize for the interruption and we now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

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Instead of throwing all of those ones you get disatisified with away, give them to Kris, and have him auction them off at the next Ghengis for charity.

 

 

Ya know, that's a really good idea. How hard would it be to toss them into a bucket or shoebox? Shove it in a corner and once a year donate to Kris... I bet alot of folks would bid on it, and it would be for a good cause, and it would get people off your back.

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What offends people so much about me throwing away minis?

Why is it that people want me to send them the minis I'd throw away?

 

 

How can you throw them away?

They are little people!

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Reduce, reuse and recycle!

 

And Rastl has a great suggestion. Bag 'em up and drop them at your FLGS. Somebody will want them, if for nothing else than for something to practice painting on.

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Instead of throwing all of those ones you get disatisified with away, give them to Kris, and have him auction them off at the next Ghengis for charity.

 

 

Ya know, that's a really good idea. How hard would it be to toss them into a bucket or shoebox? Shove it in a corner and once a year donate to Kris... I bet alot of folks would bid on it, and it would be for a good cause, and it would get people off your back.

 

 

I'll second this. It's a great idea. Auction them off for charity and help someone out in the process, make the world a better place one mini at a time.

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If you can afford to just throw them away; why not? I realy don't care.

 

Would I prefer you sent them to me? Sure :D Why? Because I want a free mini! However I can also see your point of view; if it's not worth your time to strip it then it's not worth your time to pack and ship it.

 

I don't throw them away because I'm too cheap. I don't even like spending $5 on lunch; let alone throwing it in the trash because I don't percieve it as worth my time to strip and repaint. That said; time is money and you shouldn't sell yourself short. To me it's my hobby time and I've already 'wasted' that time (as far as it's percieved moneytary value; like I always say about hobbies... a perfectly good waste of time =)

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I dislike unnecessary waste. It offends me. And throwing away something that someone else would be pleased to have, would even pay you for, is certainly unnecessary. That attitude is indicative of much that is wrong with modern society as a whole. That's what I believe, anyway.

 

Ishil

 

I agree to a point; lets keep it in perspective. Ounce for ounce; I bet I throw as many pop cans away per week as one mini he throws away... it's a little metal minature. I really don't find it indicative of note worthy pitfalls of modern society as a whole or insulting.

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I dislike unnecessary waste. It offends me. And throwing away something that someone else would be pleased to have, would even pay you for, is certainly unnecessary. That attitude is indicative of much that is wrong with modern society as a whole. That's what I believe, anyway.

 

Ishil

 

I agree to a point; lets keep it in perspective. Ounce for ounce; I bet I throw as many pop cans away per week as one mini he throws away... it's a little metal minature. I really don't find it indicative of note worthy pitfalls of modern society as a whole or insulting.

I don't throw away pop cans. I seldom drink from a can, but when I do I keep hold of it until I can put it where it can be recycled. It's really not that hard.

 

Ishil

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I think Chris hit it right on for most of us that know you, Phil. We've seen what you will throw away, and we'd be happy to stick it on our shelf, even if it only serves as an example of a technique that we may not be able to perform as well as you. And I'd bet that most of us would also be willing to swap you fresh metal, figure for figure, with what you don't want anymore, and pay the shipping costs too. :;):

 

In any case, don't let the stripping get you down....

 

Wow, that sounded wrong. :lol:

 

~v

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I dislike unnecessary waste. It offends me. And throwing away something that someone else would be pleased to have, would even pay you for, is certainly unnecessary. That attitude is indicative of much that is wrong with modern society as a whole. That's what I believe, anyway.

 

Ishil

 

I agree to a point; lets keep it in perspective. Ounce for ounce; I bet I throw as many pop cans away per week as one mini he throws away... it's a little metal minature. I really don't find it indicative of note worthy pitfalls of modern society as a whole or insulting.

 

Ehhhh....not sure if I agree with the notion.

 

Pop cans are the container for the product. The waste product.

 

Miniatures ARE the product.

 

I'd compare the blister pack to the cans.

 

 

 

 

Ounce for ounce, metal wise, they may be similar....but I don't look at it like that. Throwing away a miniature would be more like opening the soda can, taking a drink, and pouring out the rest.

 

 

 

 

 

Thats just me though. :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm beginning to wonder if this is some kind of psychological experiment for Pae. lol :D

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