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pae

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I'm beginning to wonder if this is some kind of psychological experiment for Pae. lol :D

Probably - Phil can be like that ::D:

 

There are probably other people here who throw minis away, too. They just don't advertise it like Phil has, plus there is a good probability that they aren't quite as good of a painter as Phil.

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just put the minis in a big, bring to Reapercon and offer the bag of Phil's rejects in trade for a bottle of good Bourbon.

 

win-win situation

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See when I first saw the subject line I assumed the question was - Why bother stripping when you can just repaint right on top! Yeah - I was pretty shocked to see your options were between "stripping" and "throwing away".

 

I won't go into any arguments about why you shouldn't be wasting minis - a lot of other people have done a better job of describing how wasteful it is - and how there are so many alternatives - like just dropping them off at a FLGS to be sold/given away as used minis or even just dropping it in a goodwill box.

 

I'm more interested in the fact that: A) you throw out enough minis a year to actually cause you to stress about it or people's reaction to it. B) You actually take the time to come onto a message board, post pictures of said minis, then explain that they will be thrown out. C) You actually have to start a thread asking why people would be upset/offended by said mini trashing.

 

Now I don't know you & I'm not a regular here (2 strikes against me on Internet forums) so maybe you don't actually post pics and mention that you'll be throwing it out - maybe the people who mention they've seen your minis all live in your area. But if you do waste your time and others time by posting pics of minis then explaining that you're going to throw it away... I dunno.... to me it seems kind of oblivious at best, and a weird ego trip at worst. Think of someone who buys a $300 bottle of rare wine, then posts pics of it on a Wine appreciation forum - only to explain that the bottle is dirty and the cork is chipped, so he's going to throw it away. Or someone who buys a classic car, posts pictures online and explains that the seats are scuffed and torn in places, so he's going to have it demolished because it's a waste of his time to fix it - and he can just buy a new one.

 

It's kind of just basic human empathy.

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pae has long stated he doesn't have any tolerance for stripping minis so he tosses them. I think the assumption on everyone's part is that he only does this with in production minis and not with anything special and/or limited edition.

 

If you can get another one then it isn't nearly as big of a deal as something that can't be replaced except for the overall feeling of waste that comes from tossing something that is potentially still useful.

 

He doesn't like to strip minis and prefers not to bother with them if they don't turn out as he planned. Fine. He's heard the anguished cries from the forum and has attempted to strip a mini to his satisfaction. As he said he doesn't see that the time investment is worth it. For him, tossing the old one and getting a new one is his solution.

 

We've been trying to convince him that there are more constructive uses for his discarded minis than the dustbin. You can tell that from the responses. And I don't think I've ever seen him post a pic of a mini and then follow it with a comment that he didn't like it so it got tossed.

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Or someone who buys a classic car, posts pictures online and explains that the seats are scuffed and torn in places, so he's going to have it demolished because it's a waste of his time to fix it - and he can just buy a new one.

 

For me, that last part really hits home. Normally, when I read a post where somebody says they just throw a mini out when it gets messed up, I feel a little shock over the wastefulness simply because it's my nature to think things have value even if it means converting or parting them out.

 

But when it's put in terms like this, a sort of wasteful arrogance, it tends to bother me more. I think not only because that sounds uglier in general, but also because I have an associate (somebody I can't help but to have to socialize with) who does and says things like this. On the one hand, he and his girlfriend put up a huge show of recycling everything (plastics, cardboard, etc.). On the other hand, this guy has more money than the rest of us combined and tends to overspend. When he then can't get a good price from selling his old stuff (and by old I mean from last year), he chucks it. He'd rather throw it away than give it away, it seems. (Meanwhile, his girlfriend is always dumping her trashy old stuff on her friends.)

 

That this guy throws his stuff away might be tolerable by itself (it's not my business for the most part). But that he takes time and makes great effort to tell the rest of us all about it? That can get pretty ugly.

 

Probably, if somebody is going to throw out minis when he mucks up the paint, he should keep it to himself. Telling everybody else about it seems like an obvious attempt at getting people ruffled or just getting attention, or both.

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Instead of making this a witch-hunt and saying how horrible Phil is for something he's never done that I know of (posting pictures of stuff he's thrown out), I think people need to stick to the original questions.

 

I don't remember the first thread when Phil posted a finished piece that he'd mentioned being a candidate for the garbage, but it was a while back, and I thought the reaction from people about the concept was frankly over the top. Knowing Phil he's not posting for attention, Bruunwald, he's honestly curious about why people were so upset the last time when he said it. Linking tossing a mini to the current downfall of Western Civilization and berating him for things he hasn't done is a bit much.

 

And, you know what? He's not alone. I'd rather trash a mini or toss it into the melt bucket than strip it. It takes me less time to prep a mini than it does to get it back to pure, clean metal (and yes, I don't like bits of primer in the cracks). If I've done putty work or glued it to where it shouldn't be melted I'll trim chunks off and just toss the remainder.

 

Tossing minis into a box to cart to RCon for melting or to donate at a FLGS the next time you swing by it is a much better option than mailing them out, I think, as you're not adding all those boxes and "footprints" of the transportation of them to the equation.

 

Anyhoo, I think if people can continue to rationally discuss this it's good, but if people are going to make blind assumptions without asking Phil or others for clarification first and then attack him for it then this thread should be locked.

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There is nothing arrogant about pae, at all, period. In fact I would venture to say that he is one of the most humble people (at least in regards to miniature painting) that you are likely to meet. He put forth a question, he stated what he does, why he does it and he's looking for responses. To the best of my knowledge he has never thrown away a completed mini nor has he ever posted pics of a mini that he has then thrown away after folks have seen it (perhaps with the exception of some of us that live in the area).

 

Nor are we talking about 100s of minis a year, we are talking a handful of miniatures and never limited edition, masters or out of production pieces.

 

For some people time is a more precious resource than the money, for most of us its worth the time to strip the mini down and re-paint for pae it simply is not. He would rather spend the time that he has painting than stripping.

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I believe that some people don't really want your used minis necessarily for the mini, or to save the 5$ of buying their own. I think some may want it to see your technique up close in hand so they can sort of practice to mimic your style.

 

I have a few of my own that the majority of the thing is screwed up but one , maybe small, thing came out right on it. So I save the mini just for future reference.

 

On the other hand, I have thrown some out too. I think I know what you mean about picking at it for so long. I can spend an hour or two all together picking at it after soaking it over and over trying not to ruin any of the details or I could just stop by the gamers haven or hobby town and drop 4-5 on a new one.

 

I think for a table top sorta, clean minis are ok, when a person is going for a display type of piece it needs to start off right or else the end result won't really be good for the painter. To everyone else the thing will look good, but to the guy painting it for hours on end.... his eye may keep going back to the flaw. Regerdless of how it looks in the end, the piece will be flawed to him because he knows whats wrong with it.

 

If your gonna spend 20-30 hours of your time painting a mini, it's worth the xtra 5$ if its gonna mean you'll be pleased with your result.

 

Lol, I work with sheet steel and aluminum all day long. I sorta see an oz of pewter in the trash sorta trivial in the whole picture. Especially when you think about people leaving appliances plugged in all night wasting electricity, people keeping their water heater at full heat, fridge as cold as it can get, keeping ac on all day long... heat too, running the water while they brush their teeth, taking a Sunday drive in their nice big family van, taking long showers, wasting food, do you count the squares of toilet paper you use???/ do you really need 10!!! how wasteful!! Ya sarcasm. the list goes on and on depending on where one decides to draw the line. Everyone that points a finger for this and that need to look at their hand.. they have three more fingers pointing back at them. now gotta go lurk before i get burned real bad :).

 

lol, to awnsere your question though, i think it's because they want to copy/see how the good painters do it.

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Instead of making this a witch-hunt and saying how horrible Phil is for something he's never done that I know of (posting pictures of stuff he's thrown out)....

...

I don't remember the first thread when Phil posted a finished piece that he'd mentioned being a candidate for the garbage, but it was a while back,

 

Don't you contradict yourself there? In this discussion, there's not much of a distinction between sating "I have thrown this out" and "I plan to throw this out". Also, I actually didn't say he posted pics of allready trashed minis, I said it sounded like he was posting pictures of minis and mentioning that he was going to throw them out.

 

Anyhoo, I think if people can continue to rationally discuss this it's good, but if people are going to make blind assumptions without asking Phil or others for clarification first and then attack him for it then this thread should be locked.

 

1) I don't think it was a "blind" assumption - it was a pretty reasonable conclusion since he was asking a question about why people would a) be upset that he was going to throw out a mini and b) ask to have it mailed to them. I reasoned that he was posting pictures of one or more miniatures online and saying that he was unhappy with the paint job and that he was going to throw them away. If people saw them in person they probably wouldn't ask to have them mailed to them.

 

2) I wasn't attacking him, I was trying to answer the question "What offends people so much about me throwing away minis" by explaining what someone's emotional response to the concept might be, and why an emotional response might occur. That emotional response exists completely separate from any kind of "logical" response to perceived waste.

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Chaotic, I think you're arguing semantics either without paying attention to the full story or misunderstanding something I may not have said clearly enough. Both "I have thrown this out" and "I plan to throw this out" were not said by Phil to the best of my knowledge. I'm not going to bother searching through each and every one of his posts, but if memory serves me correctly, he posted a finished mini in the Show Off section and made a comment on how he had been planning to throw it out, but changed his mind and was happy that he'd finished it. ::D:

 

I hope this clarifies what I was saying, and I hope once again people can stick to the original topic and ask Phil for thoughts and clarification. Maybe we could have a separate thread for the hypotheticals?

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My two cents:

 

The minis belong to Phil. He paid for 'em, it is his prerogative what to do with 'em. If he wishes to throw them out, that is his right; he owns them. I have thrown out a figure myself and I consider it perfect punishment for a lousy figure that was near impossible to paint (no I'm not going to tell you which one, but it did lead to at least a thirty-minute rant on how nobody could sculpt such-and-such except Julie Guthrie and that I was never going to listen to anything Ron said about painting ever again...the first of which I still believe, the second of which I have followed through on to this day). Throwing that figure out was a catharsis that let me go on to the next figure much refreshed; it cleared my mind, if you will.

 

I daresay that if someone wishes to take offense at me throwing that figure out, they're welcome to, because it's their right to have their feelings and opinions...just like it's mine to discard a piece of my property if it's causing huge amounts of Paint Rage. :;):

 

--Anne ::):

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Rather than tossing the mini, I find a nice swing of a hammer and then a toss into the melt box a wonderfully cathartic experience.

 

I strip the mini because I don't want to waste the money. Even if it was something I bought w/ BL points. If I can't get all the paint off, or enough for me, I toss it into a box for trade at Reapercon. Since my level of painting is not near yours, a little paint in the cracks won't hurt me. If it's a lot, I just trade it for new shiny metal in May.

 

If it's any consolation Phil, when I just moved and friends of mine saw my "waste" box, they had a few shocked & unkind comments about it, and that was a box for trade/melt. :blink:

Edited by Qwyksilver

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