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I'd change that card and why


Mad Pat
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Something that I just noticed on Friday about the Rhino is that the Rhino OEM card was supposed to get an increase in RAV as well, but never did. It still wouldn't be as powerful as the Ritt version, but it would have given every faction access to another super-heavy with good fire-power.

 

I do find it curious (and kinda funny) that everyone seems to have such an issue with the Rhino though, yet nobody seems to think there's anything wrong with the Emperor. Is it the fact that the Emperor costs more?

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I do find it curious (and kinda funny) that everyone seems to have such an issue with the Rhino though, yet nobody seems to think there's anything wrong with the Emperor. Is it the fact that the Emperor costs more?

 

Emperor is more expensive, does not have blaster, and has 1 point lower armor. Seems more balanced due to all that, IMO. 13 armor seems much easier to hit than the 14 of the Rhino.

 

Edit - I know you had said in the past the Emperor was supposed to have Blaster, but that never made it onto the card.

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So let me get this straight - a Defensive Value of 14 (and I'm assuming that what you're actually talking about is an ECM-boosted DV 17) is too powerful, so everyone is suggesting that we should lower the Range on the guns by 4". But a 20" range on the Emperor's guns, which have an even higher RAV than the Rhino's, is OK.

 

That makes total sense to me.

 

(Yes, I'm being sarcastic. ^_^ *)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* Hmmm, there's no "I'm being a smartass dick" emoticon, so this will have to do.

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I think someone mentioned lowering the Emperor's range to match, which I definitely agree with--it is a Rach model after all.

 

I think the overall consensus is that the Blaster on the Rhino is worth far more than the extra RAV on the Emperor, since they both have such high RAVs in any case.

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I'm curious... a lot of you think that 20" is too long of a range for the Rotary Gauss Cannons, but what about the extended ranges on all of the other Gauss Cannons? We didn't just boost the range on the RGC's without consideration for all of the other models in the game, but did we go too far? Did we make the game's ranges too long?

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I'm curious... a lot of you think that 20" is too long of a range for the Rotary Gauss Cannons, but what about the extended ranges on all of the other Gauss Cannons? We didn't just boost the range on the RGC's without consideration for all of the other models in the game, but did we go too far? Did we make the game's ranges too long?

 

That could be part of it. If you are playing on a 6x4 table, the furthest apart the deployment zones are is 5", which is still 2nd to 3rd for most things. Rhino only has to move up a bit to hit 3rd with 20 inch range bands (and a -4 penalty is no big deal, especially with EST support), where he cannot do that with a 16 inch band, unless he runs-and-guns, and takes a penalty to all his shots of -2, or only shoots the GRC for no penalty.

 

I know that ideally you want a 4x8 table, with 7 between zones, but at quite a few places, that is not possible.

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I have always thought most of the ranges are too long cause it promotes sitting and firing rather than moving and flanking.

 

Its one of those things that to me, even tho we all know that today's technologies allow us to do amazing things in terms of ranges, and therefore the future "should" be even more so, it is still a game that for the most part people are trying to play on kitchen tables or game tables. So, in my opinion the game side should take priority over realism for that.

 

Either that or all of the sculpts should shrink to about a 1/3 of their size, get cheaper, and have a ton of them on the table.

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Either that or all of the sculpts should shrink to about a 1/3 of their size, get cheaper, and have a ton of them on the table.

I honestly wouldn't mind that. :lol: I've always wished that more gaming tables were wider, so that there was more room to move "east and west" to flank, etc. You could play short-ways on an 8x4 table, but then you're only like 36" away from each other to start, which isn't good either.

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A favor to ask then. If you guys get a chance to play a quick one off game, play it with No electronic support units, IE no backpack panthers or roller skate nomads, and drop the range on the rhino's guns to 16. How big a diffrence does the 4 inches make?

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I think some of the ranges could use reduction. Not all of them, though--I think it makes sense that Adon has slightly longer ranged gauss weaponry, since all of their other weapons are quite long ranged, for example. Basically, there's a variety of reasonable ranges for a given weapon type, and I don't have any problem with all of them being represented between the different factions or model types. But over all models, the various ranges should be evenly represented, more or less.

 

For example, currently:

12: MG, FL

16: --

20: GRC, some GGC, some GC

24: most GC, some GGC, some LBG

28: some GC, some PBG, some GGC, some LBG, short-ranged DFM

32: most PBG, some LBG, some DFM, Chancellor GC

36: Adon PBG, some DFM, short-ranged IFM

40: most IFM

44: Adon IFM

48: Mastodon FAS

 

It creates a sort of range curve--by upping GC ranges, you pushed the average range in the game up to 24-32, where it used to be more like 20-28; that change has been fairly noticeable, I think, especially since what used to be the high ranges aren't "as high" relatively, as they used to be.

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I know it really doesn't make as much sense Chrome, but yes that range does make a wierd difference. Maybe crank his movement back down a little and leave the range up so that the weapon systems are still in line. The Rhino does even look slow and ponderous. At 7" move rather than 9, it would compensate the 4" range within a double move and keep the weapon stats where they belong.

 

Here's one where I'm really torn. I love the long ranges that CAV has. It never made sense that "long range missles" had such a short range in CBT. CAV really gives a feeling of ranged combat and if you can get a game on a good side table it also has good opportunity for flanking attacks and shifting battle lines. This is especially true if you aren't running around in little 'bubble' troops. Sadly there usually isn't a chance to play on a good sized table. In all honesty no game should start closer than the max range of the longest ranged weapon out there but that just isn't a viable option 99% of the time. I do believe that I would rather suffer with less than optimum engagement ranges than to drop the distance of them.

 

CAV in a smaller scale would be cool but that is a revamp none of us want to really think about. Now if we had only scaled the CAVs in with the old gunships... :upside:

 

The last game we played at spring StompFest we played 'short ways' and it really made the game way too up close and personal. I spent the game pulling off quick shots and running with my Outlaw section. You really shouldn't be starting off within the first range band. I'll see if we can't get in a game or two with the shorter ranged Rhinos. Would you like us to try out keeping the range up and slowing him down as well?

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Had almost forgotten until Outkast Samurai posted--I agree that part of the problem is that the Rhino and Emperor are also the fastest superheavies. It just seems wrong that something that huge can move at the same speed as an "average" model (don't know about anyone else, but I consider Mov9 to be the standard). I'd definitely give them either the speed or the range, not both.

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Well, I seem to be the lone voice of dissent here, I still rarely, if EVER field my T-birds because they are so slow.

The Rhino, Thug, Katana, and Gladiator II, saw NO action when they were MV7 and the Rhino and Emperor both will go back to the shelf if they go back to 7. Of course, (when I can find someone to play) we have AT LEAST 75-85% of the table covered with LOS blocking terrain. 24"+ fields of fire DON'T exist. The longest open space we use is on my desert table which has an 18" long wadi going across the middle of the table, even then it usually gets at least one terrain feature placed in the wadi to limit LOS. MV8 is the minimum I use, PERIOD. Even with R'N'G NO Cav gets more than one or two shots over 12-16" in DF on one of my tables, so practically every DF shot is in the first range band if not Point Blank.

The Rhino is SUPPOSED to be one of the hardest hitters in the game, and the balance between OEM and Ritterlich version fit IMHO. The Emperors lighter armor goes right along with the basically lesser DV of all Rach models, they are also mostly faster than other factions so MV9 fits as well.

 

*rant on*

What still burns my butt, even now is the BS that the T-bird is so slow because it is a SUPPORT CAV, Horsehockey, what the hell are those whopping big PBG's for, DECORATION?!?!. IF it wasn't supposed to get up close and personal it shouldn't have DV14, Rugged, Shielding/3 and two of the most powerful energy weapons in the game. If it is only supposed to hang back and use IA's then Rugged and Shielding are both a waste of points. The only, and I repeat ONLY redeeming feature I feel as a Terran player is the Thunderhawk having MV8. I used to have 8 Thunderbirds, now I have 4, the rest have been converted to T-hawks, and if the 'final' rules come out leaving the T-bird at MV6, then the remainder will also become T-hawks. Same with my Adonese army, I NEVER field Ogres, faction or OEM, NEVER. TOO DAMN SLOW.

I think more Cavs should be MV11-12 and the Supers MV8-9, it would still balance the game, especially if people play with terrain and not on pool tables.

*rant off*

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