HBO's A Game of Thrones

[fieldarchy]

It will all become clear.

 

I used to be the same way with Audiobooks until the Martin ones really. They have some very good narrators. I'm also a branching out a bit more in how I get my books. My libraries were getting too big and I got a kindle. Very good device and it's opened up my mind to accepting more audiobooks. Though I still prefer the act of reading to listening.

[joshuaslater]

I'm going to wait for the Kindle that plugs into a jack in back of my skull.

[Chrome]

Not having read the books (blasphemy, I know), it was pretty confusing on to who was who, who was allied with who, who was sleeping with who, and who was trying to kill who.

 

I enjoyed it, and I hope that it continues, and things will become more apparent as the series moves forward. But I really would rather not watch every episode twice like I did on Sunday - good way to get me to stop watching, no matter how cool the setting is.

I agree. I've read the books and it still was a while into the episode before I remembered that there were 3 Stark boys. In the books, each chapter is written from a specific character's point of view and is labeled w/that character's name. I think something similar would have helped w/these first few episodes.

 

As for who's sleeping with whom... I don't remember if its explained later on in the books or in one of Martin's side projects (there are a few excellent comic books) but the Tegaryns (sp) who used to rule the kingdom were known to almost exclusively marry within their own family. They ruled for centuries and kept their bloodline pure, as well as their blond hair. With only the occasional lunatic resulting from the cross-breeding. However I don't remember Viserys and Dani ever having sex in the book (its been a long time since I read it tho). He saw himself as the king, but the only subject he had to rule over was his sister. I always thought he did that stuff more b/c he knew it upset her, rather than b/c he was attracted to her. It was a way of reminding her of her place.

 

The queen and her brother on the other hand, definitely do bump uglies and definitely don't want anyone to know about it, as shown by their willingness to kill a young boy. See the Tegaryns could get away with the perv stuff b/c they ruled the country with fire-breathing dragons. Most people probably thought it was just disgusting as we do, but what are you going to do about it? But in the current timeline, the king wouldn't be very happy at all to find out his wife was boning her own brother. If you hadn't already guessed by the way he went on about Ed's dead sister or his whoring, the king and queen aren't exactly in love with each other.

[fieldarchy]

It wouldn't be disgusting for royal incest to occur if that was the cultural norm. Remember, they ruled their own land and then invaded Westeros. So, in their own country it was probably as accepted as the fact that the Egyptians practiced royal incest in our own world. Just becuase OUR modern day norms say this is wrong, doesn't mean it wasn't accepted in our world's history.

[Qwyksilver]

The books have amazingly well detailed appendices listing the various houses, who is attached to them, and brief descriptions of the characters. They'd probably work well as a cliff notes for the show.

[Dodson]

I just finished episode two....

 

 

I really love the show so far. One of my favorite characters from the books, Tyrion, has pressed so far on screen and they found a great kid to play Joffrey. I hate that little %€£^£ already. Here's to hoping others like it because I hope it stays on air for the entirety of the book series.

[papabees]

The one character I'm not getting is Catelyn Stark. The description in the book always made me think she was a bit more attractive and had more ...presence I guess.

[Chrome]

The one character I'm not getting is Catelyn Stark. The description in the book always made me think she was a bit more attractive and had more ...presence I guess.

Yeah, I'm not quite sure on her either, but this is still really early in the book too. She didn't really have much to do until Lord Stark left and she began to run the day-to-day operations of the house. I thought they did a great job of showing her contempt for Jon though. I always thought that was one of the better parts of the book that showed she was deep-down a crazy, jealous woof. I mean he's lived with them for over a decade - she'd have had plenty of time to see that he'd grown into a good man, how well he treated all of his brothers and sisters and how much they loved him - and most importantly that he knew his place and didn't display any overt desires to claim Ed's seat - and yet she still hated him as much as if he'd just knocked on the door and introduced himself that morning.

[fieldarchy]

Yeah but it's not that he's a good guy it's the fact that Ned cheated on her and fathered a son out of that union and he brought the low born bastard back with him. This is a slap in any woman's face--think about how your wife or girlfriend might react if you haven't seen her in a year or more then come home with a baby and say, "here, I have another child for you to mother"? I don't think that'd go over too well.

 

I mean I like Jon, don't get me wrong on that count but this would have been a huge insult to any queen. Most of the time illegitimate children were raised somewhere in the country side or away from court. Not right smack dab in the middle of it along with his or her royal siblings.

 

Cat probably could have overlooked the affair, may not have even had to know about it, but the evidence of Ned's union--of which he won't speak so that leaves her thinking there was a deep love for that woman, not her--with a low born woman who was possibly a prostitute is staring her in the face daily.

 

Gotta think of it from a practical and historical point of view. Martin doesn't paint a picture of Utopia. He writes about a world that is real, dark, gritty, harsh.

[Mercius]

 

Gotta think of it from a practical and historical point of view. Martin doesn't paint a picture of Utopia. He writes about a world that is real, dark, gritty, harsh.

 

He writes about a world not much unlike our own really. Take the magic and the fantasy elements out and it isn't far off.

[Chrome]

Yeah but it's not that he's a good guy it's the fact that Ned cheated on her and fathered a son out of that union and he brought the low born bastard back with him. This is a slap in any woman's face--think about how your wife or girlfriend might react if you haven't seen her in a year or more then come home with a baby and say, "here, I have another child for you to mother"? I don't think that'd go over too well.

 

I mean I like Jon, don't get me wrong on that count but this would have been a huge insult to any queen. Most of the time illegitimate children were raised somewhere in the country side or away from court. Not right smack dab in the middle of it along with his or her royal siblings.

 

Cat probably could have overlooked the affair, may not have even had to know about it, but the evidence of Ned's union--of which he won't speak so that leaves her thinking there was a deep love for that woman, not her--with a low born woman who was possibly a prostitute is staring her in the face daily.

 

Gotta think of it from a practical and historical point of view. Martin doesn't paint a picture of Utopia. He writes about a world that is real, dark, gritty, harsh.

 

And I'm saying that after 16 years (give or take, I don't remember how old Jon is) of seeing that boy grow into a good man, the pain and anger caused by Ned's affair would have softened. Sure she'd hate him for a while, possibly even years. But at some point, most rational people would would come to terms with the fact that its not the boy's fault that his father cheated, and they'd shift any resentment from the son to the father. Instead she still treats Jon as if the whole thing was his fault.

 

She lives a lie, a lie where she's the only woman her husband ever loved, and Jon is the constant reminder that it is a lie. We all know people like that - who hold grudges for years about some imagined slight. She's just three of four steps farther down the path of cold-heart beeotch. She blames a boy for his father's sins. And that was my point- that she's not totally balanced.

[fieldarchy]

 

 

And I'm saying that after 16 years (give or take, I don't remember how old Jon is) of seeing that boy grow into a good man, the pain and anger caused by Ned's affair would have softened. Sure she'd hate him for a while, possibly even years. But at some point, most rational people would would come to terms with the fact that its not the boy's fault that his father cheated, and they'd shift any resentment from the son to the father. Instead she still treats Jon as if the whole thing was his fault.

 

 

 

 

No, it's not his fault that Ned had the affair but it doesn't mean that she would like him any more. Try to put yourself in her shoes? It would not be easy thing to see the person you love end up in the arms of someone else and having a child with them. That child is always around a constant reminder of that betrayal. But in the sense of propriety and how the court has historically worked bastards are not welcomed into a home with open arms. Martin is very much keeping it real in terms of her reaction. I don't know of a single woman who would welcome a child from an affair her husband had into her home with open and loving arms. I don't think she blames Jon for Ned's affair, she just doesn't want the reminder around. Also, gotta remember that in the books he's described as looking more like a true Northern born child than any of Cat's children. Also another reminder.

 

And in regards to her reaction of Jon saying good bye to Bran--let me say I've been on his end of things. When my (step)brother, Joe, was dying his father, Burt, was very much against myself, my sister and my Dad being as involved in the funeral and things at the hospital as we were because he saw us as "not Joe's family". Didn't matter that my Dad and Joe's Mom have been together for almost 20 years, Burt still had an issue with us there. Not that we left or anything but he very much made it known to my (step) brother Michael (also his child) that we are not his family because we are not related by blood. It's very hurtful. And if Joe had had a say I don't think he would have wanted us treated that way.

 

When a family is grieving for a child you do and say things that are irrational. You aren't thinking straight. Having lost my younger brother and watching my family go through a murder trial, the reaction Martin paints for Cat is not out of line. It is very much a realistic interpretation of how any mother would behave. You don't want anyone you consider an outsider around. Most of all you don't want the healthy, strong, boy of another woman around while one of your babies is laying in bed hurt.

 

@Merc--yes, Martin is very much describing a world like ours. It is based on our own and our own history afterall. It's what makes the series so good--you can picture the world and you can imagine living in it.

[Dodson]

In regards to Catelyn, I believe they did not cast her as a gorgeous actress because that is more what the south and the lannisters prize compared to the north. Ned doesn't want a trophy wife ;). Also it helps foreshadow her role later. I dont want to spoil so I'll leave it at that.

[papabees]

In regards to Catelyn, I believe they did not cast her as a gorgeous actress because that is more what the south and the lannisters prize compared to the north. Ned doesn't want a trophy wife ;). Also it helps foreshadow her role later. I dont want to spoil so I'll leave it at that.

 

I never really thought of her as gorgeous just...charismatic I guess. She just strikes me as the nagging wife right now and I liked her in the book.

[Chrome]

I think she was naggy at this point in the story. It wasn't until after Ned left that she came into her own.

 

She didn't want Ned to go south and come back home w/another bastard son.