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HBO's A Game of Thrones


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Kang normally I agree with this assessment but as I've goten older I've become an awful book purist that has difficulty enjoying screenplays of books for what they are. So for now I'll enjoy the show

*Spoiler*

 

In regards to Catlyn and said relationship. Remember, she didn't want to marry Ned in the first place. He was the brother of the man she loved. They got married and a few days/weeks later he went off to war. Very little "love" was shared by either of them at the beginning of the relationship. That love later grew strong and solidified. While it can be said that Ned cheated on her, I would be hard pressed to be faithful to someone that I only married to solidify an allegience with another noble family. And really, what would it say about Ned's character if he left Jon? I'm sure if Jon's mother had been living he would have been left. But Ned is a genuinly good man in a world of questionable people. Caring for a bastard child shows that he is a head and shoulders above those he deals with. That Catlyn refuses to accept this, shows her elitist upbringing. Which is explained in later books. Still, i love the fact that G.R.R.M can write a story so compelling that it causes us to have a debate on the way people treat each other shows how really good these books are.

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Wow, I get busy for a few weeks at work and my computer here forgets how to automatically log me in, then I forget my password for another couple weeks while still busy, and guess what happens - my old thread comes back to life! This is great. As is the series so far!

 

so... (potential spoilers ahead - don't read if you haven't seen episode 1-3 yet, or maybe even if you haven't read books 1-4)

 

About the Targaryens:

 

Viserys is as mad as his father Aerys II, but perhaps with more justifcation - after all, he had his birthright ripped away from him when he was just a wee one and has been living in exile almost all his life. He is a creepy [email protected]#$ for sure the way he treats his sister, but (and I am by no means trying to defend him, he's evil for sure) I think he really is doing what he thinks is necessary to win back his kingdom, as opposed to intentionally tormenting her. She is his golden ticket to the Khal's army and the Iron Throne, so he'll use her as he sees fit, and even tells her so straight out in terms I can't repeat here, just like pretty much any of the other lords in Martin's world would. Most of the marriages among the noble houses are arranged for political reasons just like this one, though usually the girl's husband doesn't seem so completely foreign and strange to her. The Targaryen rulers have a family tradition going back for generations and generations of marrying brother to sister to keep the royal bloodline pure, hence, as has been said, the inherited madness that rears its head every few generations. So perhaps that partially explains (again, not 'justifies') that "touching family scene" in episode 1... It's also worth noting that in the book, for what it's worth (ie. not much), he did not actually remove her clothing in that scene (though he did do more painful pinching), and that while yes, she was terrified (and only 13 unliek in the series), the end of Dany's wedding night was WAY more consensual in the book than on the show. I don't know why HBO made the Khal seem like such a brute... to his bride that is; to his enemies is another story of course. But I'm glad to say that by episode 3 that seems to be pretty much back on track.

 

About Catelyn and Jon:

 

Catelyn doesn't begrudge Ned having found comfort in another woman's arms while he was off at war and they were barely wed and practically strangers, nor even that he fathered a bastard on whoever she was (if indeed that is truly what happened; seems a bit out of character for ever-honourable Ned Stark if you ask me...). In this I'd say she's way more understanding about it than almost any women in modern western culture could be, and this is entirely in keeping with the story's setting, which is similar to medieval Europe in many ways. It's the fact that Ned brought Jon home with him and called him Son for all the world to see she sees as a slap in the face. And, as was mentioned earlier, Ned refuses to say who the mother was. In the book in one of the early Cat PoV's she remembers having heard a rumour about who the mother was and having asked him about it. His reaction was the one and only time she had ever been frightened of him, and he commanded her never to speak of it again. So what is she to think other than that this other woman must have been someone he loved very much, and maybe even that he might secretly resent her for not being that woman. At least King Robert had the decency not to acknowledge any of his many embarrassing bastards and has kept them out of sight and away from court wherever possible... To top it off, while Ned was at war, Catelyn had returned home to Riverrun to give birth to Robb, and after the war when she got back to Winterfell, Ned had gotten there first and Jon and his wet nurse were already installed in the castle as though the bastard had more right to be there than her and her trueborn son. I can totally understand how she feels about that, and in the scene where Jon says goodbye to Bran she is even more hostile toward Jon in the book than in the series, threatening to call the guards if he doesn't leave and even telling him it should have been him who fell. As for her seeming like the nagging wife, it's true she's written this way more in the series than in the books for some reason - in the books, Ned at first wants to Refuse Robert's offer to be the new Hand of the King so he can remain in the North and Catelyn has to convince him he has no choice (at least before Bran's fall; after that she begs him to stay, though not "on-camera" so to speak) and that his old friend Robert is changed and would not be understanding if Ned threw the great honours he'd been offered back in his king's face, while in the series it's Ned telling her he has no choice while she gripes about how he actually does have a choice, and like all men is just using his honour as an excuse to justify his decision, etc. Not sure why they made that change, but other than that I think making her look and seem like she's endured some hardships in her life works well for the series, what with her betrothed (Ned's brother) having been killed and her being married off to his brother who she didn't know and sent way off from everything she's known into the bleak North and all. Her family's words are "Family, Duty, Honor" and I think she is doing a good job at living up to them. I also think that by episode 3 she seems stronger, more able, and significantly less shrewish than she did in episode 1 and most of episode 2. On the other hand, what is with that added scene where she plays CSI in the abandoned tower room? she's got enough reason to suspect the Lannisters for trying to kill Bran without that - the assassin proves the fall was no accident, she got the letter frome her sister warning her about the Lannisters, and (at least in the book) she remembers that Jaime did not go hunting with the king and the rest the day Bran fell. Plus, her hands were slashed almost to the bone; she couldn't move half her fingers and the rest of them were expected to be clumsy for the rest of her life. So how is she picking up that long blonde hair as easily and gracefully as I might? I personally file that one away with changing the Others to the White Walkers so people don't get confused and think they're watching Lost in the 'dumbed-down for TV audiences' folder. Which is strange and a bit contradictory considering they trust the audience to keep all those different characters and all their various noble houses and heraldry straight right off the bat without really explaining any of it, notice subtle clues like Jon saying "father's watching, and *your* mother" to Bran during archery practice and thus conclude he's Ned's bastard before Tyrion ever actually explicitly calls him Ned's bastard, etc.

 

Anyhow, I don't think it's fair to suggest she's some kind of jealous hag. She is strong and admirable and sensible and as perfect a wife for Ned as I can imagine, and she's more on the ball than half of her own family too when they eventually come into the picture later in the series. If people who haven't read the books knew half of what she'll have to come to grips with as the story progresses... There's way more of her in the books after Jon goes off to take the Black and none of it has anything to do with her feelings about him; the frosty looks and evil words when they're together in Winterfell are there to show what it's like for *Jon*, growing up as a bastard living among his trueborn half-siblings and how it has shaped his character, not to define Catelyn, who really only resents his existence when she's forced to look at him. That's how I see it, anyhow.

 

Anyhow, sorry to rant on and on like that; all this not being able to log in has left me with all sorts of pent-up geekery to vent out on you guys. I'm probably not even done yet... If I sound like I'm bagging on the TV series above where I mentioned some of the changes they made, it's not my intent. I am actually really, really liking the way they've adapted it so far. Another added scene that wasn't in the books - Cersei visiting Catelyn in Bran's sick room - was fantastic! Having her use the grief of losing her and Robert's black-haired first born son as a tool to help her convince Cat that her sympathy is genuine when we all know she'd really like nothing better than for him to die before he can spill the beans about what he saw in the tower was an ingenious way to show the audience what a two-faced rhymes-with-seaward that woman is. Especially if you've read all the books and know what I know...

 

The highlight of the series for me so far, having watched the first 3 episodes: The first time I watched Cat grappling with Bran's would-be assassin, her bands slicing open on his blade as she fights for her life and her broken son's, until his wolf comes and saves them both. I knew exactly what was coming and that it was coming right then, but I still experienced a visceral, physical reaction from seeing it on-screen. I felt like I was about to puke my heart up watching that, and it left me trembling for a good 5 minutes after the scene ended. And I am by no means the squeamish type. Wow. Powerful stuff.

 

I didn't find any part of #3 to be a highlight in particular. I liked seeing the new characters they introduced though, and it certainly was nice to see Viserys humiliated in front of his sister and Ser Jorah and forced to walk behind the entire horde rather than ride with them, which is is a really grave insult to the Dothraki. Somehow though, I sort of doubt he's learned his lesson yet... :o)

 

Although I did like the scene where the Hound first speaks to Sansa, about Ser Ilyn Payne. It wasn't an added scene, strictly speaking, but they gave the Hound a couple of extra lines and I thought they were great. "He frightens me too... just look at that face!" LOL!

 

Anyhow, it's good to be back here at last, and I am really looking forward to episode 4... not to mention watching #3 a couple more times this week while I wait for Sunday to roll around. Looking forward to more discussion about the series here as well...

 

Later,

 

Kang

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Agreed, Syrio was awesome in #3!

 

There was one thing that really burned me about #4 though (possible spoilers ahead for those who haven't yet seen it):

 

.

.

.

 

Littlefinger stole the Hound's best scene from the entire first book, if not the series itself, and turned it into just yet another piece of background info! WTF?! Not cool, even if it is something that only fans of the books would notice. I'd been really looking forward to that scene.

 

My other little nitpicks are these:

 

The scene with Ghost felt a little rushed to me, but maybe it's just me. IMO they could have trimmed 5 seconds off Ser Alliser's monologue to make that part just a little longer, but like I said, that's just a minor nitpick.

 

And I really hope we haven't seen all we're going to see of the Tourney of the Hand!

 

All in all, not a bad episode. Not by any means the best episode so far (that would be #2 IMO), heck I wouldn't even put it in the top 3 so far... but still, not bad TV.

 

Kang

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I thought the whole deal with Ghost was poorly handled, going back to episode #2. Ghost is never seen anywhere on the trip to the wall or anytime at the wall, then suddenly he's there in that one scene. :blink:

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Yeah, I remember particularly noticing Ghost's absence in the scene where Jon and Ned parted ways after leaving Winterfell.

 

I guess they didn't need to cast so many in-between-sized albino "wolves" this way. I can sort of understand that; Ghost didn't really have much "screen-time" in that part of the book either... but stealing the Hound's big scene? I just don't get it. He had some of the best lines in the book, and he doesn't get that many to begin with.

 

Anyhow, things are starting to pick up in the series, what with that last scene etc. The next few weeks should be pretty awesome, I would think.

 

Kang

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So yeah I completely love how fast Daenerys is finding her power and how she is so much more noble than her snivelling brother. I really like Tyrion but it is because he is such a complex character. Last night's final scene was absolutely priceless. Ned's quasi ally is an interesting fellow. I kind of want to read the books now.

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So yeah I completely love how fast Daenerys is finding her power and how she is so much more noble than her snivelling brother. I really like Tyrion but it is because he is such a complex character. Last night's final scene was absolutely priceless. Ned's quasi ally is an interesting fellow. I kind of want to read the books now.

 

Completely agree

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If you even like the series a little bit, you're sure to LOVE the books.

 

If you are watching the series and ever plan on reading book 1, I suggest you start reading TODAY, before the TV series goes and spoilers all the 'good' parts for you. IMO you're far better off spoilering the TV show with knowledge from the book than the other way around...

 

Just my objectively correct opinion though; ignore it if you wish.

 

 

Kang

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Kang normally I agree with this assessment but as I've goten older I've become an awful book purist that has difficulty enjoying screenplays of books for what they are. So for now I'll enjoy the show and hope that we get a True Blood phenomenon where we run out of book material so new stuff gets made.

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So I finally caught up with this on HBO on Demand. Me likey. So am I the only person who watched this and began wondering how to replicate the color palette on figures? I'm a geek. LOL. ::P::wow::wacko:

 

If you're looking for color palettes for Game of Thrones, you really should look at the GRR Martin line of figures that Dark Sword Miniatures offers. There are lots of painted images on their site of some really beautiful figures of the Game of Thrones characters. They are original works, done before the series came out. Lots of stuff from Tom Meier and Jeff Grace.

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So I finally caught up with this on HBO on Demand. Me likey. So am I the only person who watched this and began wondering how to replicate the color palette on figures? I'm a geek. LOL. ::P::wow::wacko:

 

 

Gah, more like I spent the entire last episode drooling over Jamie's armor and contemplating how awesome it would be to replicate with freehand.

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