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New Warlord Rules Book!

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I'm having a mixed reaction to the number of SAs and model states as well...mostly the significant number of melee SAs, the rest are easy enough to keep track off. But maybe it's not as extreme as it seems on reading in play.

This was a fine line that had to be walked. Too few SAs and models all seem alike; too many, and the game becomes cumbersome. Model states actually relate very closely to SAs (and spells) in that they allowed us to create some common ground that we could reference to make the SA and spell effects a bit easier to remember. Some of the SAs just have new names, but are basically the same as what we had before (for instance, Rapid Shot makes a whole lot more sense than the old name of Marksman, even tho they do exactly the same thing). I think that as you get to spend some quality time with the new version, you will find that the new SAs will quickly become rote information, as the old material was.

 

Regarding missing models: it was our goal that no model would be left behind. Models may come and go from current circulation (for example, the Reptus Krung Beast is no longer in circulation as an active model from Reaper), but they will always have datacards, much like it is Reaper's policy that discontinued models are never truly gone (they remain available for purchase directly from Reaper or via their Business to Business partner stores). Since the Warlord line is not licensed from someone else nor is it "limited edition", there will always be the option to buy old models (plus the ability to proxy practically any datacard with another Reaper model). The beta document contains only the 10 "core" factions of the Warlord game. Any models missing from it will find a home later. In the case of the 4 missing dwarven models, I recommend using them as proxies for other dwarven models until their stats are released. ::):

 

~v

Edited by Shakandara

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re: model states - that's a very different thing for Warlord, but it's actually a big help once you get used to it. I've played a handful of the games and at first model states felt odd and not quite right.

 

But then I thought of it... you could Scare an enemy and it had some debuff on it. It could be Shaken. It could but Stunned. Really, those were all model states, but you didn't have a central place - say, a page to print off - that had what all of those states were. Now you do!

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Having had a bit more time to look over the whole thing...now I may be biased, but what happened to elves??? It feels like every distinguishing aspect has been removed...they can't move through woods anymore, they're only average speed, and their archery is only marginally superior (and the same range as everyone else's). The new cards for the solos are nice, but the rest of the list...just not feeling it.

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Having had a bit more time to look over the whole thing...now I may be biased, but what happened to elves??? It feels like every distinguishing aspect has been removed...they can't move through woods anymore, they're only average speed, and their archery is only marginally superior (and the same range as everyone else's). The new cards for the solos are nice, but the rest of the list...just not feeling it.

I got into the playtesting towards the end, but even the short time I was involved the Elves were given a lot of attention. Balancing the "Shooty" army took a lot of work.

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- Fluff. Not everybody needs it, but I really need to know what I'm fighting for (call me old fashioned).

 

"Its not what you fight. Its what you fight for." A fun little quote I picked up from an RPG called Mousegaurd.

May be I'm old fasioned too. I chose crusaders based more on the fluf than anything else. Fighting on the side of rightiousness seems to apeal to me.

Darkspawn, on the other hand, I chose for the models. They are just cool looking in a neo Cthulhu meets dark fantasy kind of way.

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I'd recommend giving the elves a few spins around the block. Each time I played against 'em all the way up to the last edits, they continued to "feel" like an elf army. Sure, the list doesn't initially read like you'd expect, but they still have a good mix of shooty and magic. This coming from someone on the receiving end of the bows...

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I think elves are now the magical artillerymen of the game. Check out spells such as burning arrows, barrage... put those together and watch your archer heroes light up the enemy army! Their faction abilities are quite nice as well and one of them directly supports a prolonged magical infusion of superiority.

 

I think that you'll still need lots of the old strategies with elves - keeping a skirmish line out ahead of your archers to slow the enemy down and so forth - but I think that combining the elven magecraft with the elven archery is going to be a devastating combination.

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Having had a bit more time to look over the whole thing...now I may be biased, but what happened to elves??? It feels like every distinguishing aspect has been removed...they can't move through woods anymore, they're only average speed, and their archery is only marginally superior (and the same range as everyone else's). The new cards for the solos are nice, but the rest of the list...just not feeling it.

Re: moving through woods. All of the "movement modifier" SAs are gone, not just woodstrider. They ranged in power from almost nothing, to powerful in limited use, to nearly always helpful. As such, they were pretty imbalanced and impractical. Further, you'll notice there is no split modifier table like there used to be; all models - regardless of base size - are affected by terrain the same way (with the same modifiers). These means that now light woods slow no one down, elves or otherwise.

 

Regarding speed, I'm curios as to why you think elves should move faster (in general) than any other generally human race in the game. Are their legs longer? In general, MOV values have dropped slightly in WL 2.0; light cavalry only moves 10", heavy cavalry 9". Should elven rank and file really be able to move at 3/4 the speed of a horse? FWIW, the elven infantry already move a point faster than their crusader counterparts as a reflection of the generally lighter armor they wear. I can't see jsutifying a movement any faster than that.

 

Regarding ranged combat; if you've ever read the fluff for the various armies from the previous edition, practically every archer blurb in every faction describes their archers as "the best in all of Taltos". It's actually kind of humorous. We tried to leave the elves slightly superior to everyone else without imbalancing the game, and it was a tough line to walk. No, an elven archer-heavy army won't auto-win, and nor should it. But it will be effective, especially when combined with the magical attention that was given to the faction.

 

~v

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I think elves are now the magical artillerymen of the game. Check out spells such as burning arrows, barrage... put those together and watch your archer heroes light up the enemy army! Their faction abilities are quite nice as well and one of them directly supports a prolonged magical infusion of superiority.

 

I think that you'll still need lots of the old strategies with elves - keeping a skirmish line out ahead of your archers to slow the enemy down and so forth - but I think that combining the elven magecraft with the elven archery is going to be a devastating combination.

 

But elves can't use burning arrows, they don't have any casters with the Inferno tome. Otherwise, yes, it would be quite handy. The offensive power of elven magic seems to be fairly limited--ice is decent, but only Lysette can use it; Storm is very dependent offensively on whether you're lucky enough to get 3-5 targets out of chain lightning; and the most effective attack spell in the Arcane grouping is also quite expensive. I'm not saying their magic is bad, but it is quite limited in direct offensive firepower.

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Having had a bit more time to look over the whole thing...now I may be biased, but what happened to elves??? It feels like every distinguishing aspect has been removed...they can't move through woods anymore, they're only average speed, and their archery is only marginally superior (and the same range as everyone else's). The new cards for the solos are nice, but the rest of the list...just not feeling it.

Re: moving through woods. All of the "movement modifier" SAs are gone, not just woodstrider. They ranged in power from almost nothing, to powerful in limited use, to nearly always helpful. As such, they were pretty imbalanced and impractical. Further, you'll notice there is no split modifier table like there used to be; all models - regardless of base size - are affected by terrain the same way (with the same modifiers). These means that now light woods slow no one down, elves or otherwise.

 

Regarding speed, I'm curios as to why you think elves should move faster (in general) than any other generally human race in the game. Are their legs longer? In general, MOV values have dropped slightly in WL 2.0; light cavalry only moves 10", heavy cavalry 9". Should elven rank and file really be able to move at 3/4 the speed of a horse? FWIW, the elven infantry already move a point faster than their crusader counterparts as a reflection of the generally lighter armor they wear. I can't see jsutifying a movement any faster than that.

 

Regarding ranged combat; if you've ever read the fluff for the various armies from the previous edition, practically every archer blurb in every faction describes their archers as "the best in all of Taltos". It's actually kind of humorous. We tried to leave the elves slightly superior to everyone else without imbalancing the game, and it was a tough line to walk. No, an elven archer-heavy army won't auto-win, and nor should it. But it will be effective, especially when combined with the magical attention that was given to the faction.

 

~v

 

I guess I can see how the movement works out.

 

As to speed...the elven heavy infantry has mov5 just like crusaders and dwarves, it's only their lighter counterparts with mov6. Mostly, I was just used to them being faster from the old version.

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Understandable. I was used to my light cavalry being able to move 12" too. ::):

 

I can't say I agree with you about the Storm tome. It is one of the most wickedly effective tomes in the game. At 1K point-value games, I have no issue getting 5-8 models in a chain lightning consistently, especially once I start to engage my opponent in some melee. Larnach is CP 9; with Focus, he can nearly auto-succeed against any faction's grunts for 5 points of damage. Ardynn and Danithal both have warcaster, meaning they can be engaged in melee and cast Chain Lightning in the *same round*, as well as suffer no CP penalty to cast while based. And yes, Mind Blast is expensive... but it does 2 points *and* causes Stun, and isn't Unique! Both of the elven caster with the Arcane tome have both the grade and plenty of SPs (15 and 18) to throw it more than once. Add in that if you use the Council doctrine, those caster will be regaining SPs every round. That's almost enough SPs over the course of a game to thrown another Mind Blast. :;):

 

~v

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The key thing here is that the elves ARE different. They aren't the elves of old. They now have more offensive magic, Arcane and Storm are two of the deadliest tomes in the game. They can now sprinkle archers in several troops. They have lots of new toys that they can combine with their archers to reach ugly results by the end of round two.(Try mixing hunting cats with archers) Note that the archers also have very high MD, to resist ranged attacks that don't draw defensive fire, and also have decent DIS to disengage easily once reached.

 

The Elves of Tirithial now lean towards decent martial combat, heavy storm and arcane magic, with archers that are still slightly better than others.

Every faction has changed slightly, the elves have changed slightly more.

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With the numbers of changes made in 2.0, should the new rules be made open beta for a while before actual printing? Honestly speaking, I really like to see an actual physical version of the new rules.

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