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It says in page 145 of the rule book, "When Wild bill faces Warwick the Outcast Doctrine gives the Dragon turtle tough/9". its true look it up!

 

Ok, the dragon turtle's race is "beast" so he would not be effected by this doctrine. It would also not add anything to an existing tough model. That is a different ability like:

 

Rhasia, Zombie Queen - Voodoo - All models in Rhasia's Troop with the Tough SA gain +1 to Tough.

 

If a model in her troop doesn't have tough they also gain no benefit.

 

-Sin

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It says in page 145 of the rule book, "When Wild bill faces Warwick the Outcast Doctrine gives the Dragon turtle tough/9". its true look it up! But when playing Greenie he has Tough/0

 

Ok, the dragon turtle's race is "beast" so he would not be effected by this doctrine. It would also not add anything to an existing tough model. That is a different ability like:

 

 

-Sin

 

 

QFT - We had this discussion on the way home. Score one for the Freshman!!!!

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See, I don't think it does anything for the Dragon Turtle, but not because he's not a Turtle. He's a Turtle, says so right on his name. The SA does not limit itself to Race. But I don't think you can throw a match (Tough/1) on a bonfire (Tough/3) and have it do anything of value. I'm wanting to hear any other opinions just for sake of hearing them. I mean, we have to talk about something around here.

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You are completely right that he is a turtle, but for game mechanics hes not. He is a "beast". The name of the model doesn't matter, its just what hes called. Just like we all know a raptor is a dinosaur. but in WL he is a dragon. When dealing with Doctrines, WL abilities and SAs you have to go by what the race is.

 

-Sin

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I say the Big Turtle is still a turtle. And the Krungbeast is a warm-blood. They should both get the benefit of being Outcasts. Read the fluff.

Unfortunately, the fluff is merely that: fluff. Page 23, under the heading "Race", gives the relevant text. Note that in the Doctrines, the various FAs use the models types with a capital letter (i.e. Turtle, Snake, Skeleton), denoting them as applying to models with that Race, not simply models that might be turtle-like or skeletal.

 

~v

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A model is not just a Race. It is a name, an affiliation, a rank, a race, a cost, a base size, etc. As Smite has shown us, any and all of these elements that go together to create a unique data card can be targeted by SAs. So an FD that reads "Troll and Turtle models gain the Tough/1 SA" means to me that any model with the element of being a Troll or Turtle gains Tough/1. KEEP IN MIND, I do not think the Dragon Turtle benefits from this fact - match on bonfire analogy activated - but it is an important fact of games like Warlord to remember. These data cards have lots of elements. There are models with the Vampire SA who do not actually belong to the Vampire race. There are Dwarf models that do not have the word "dwarf" anywhere on them, but it is understood any model in that army is a Dwarf model now. Perhaps another understanding about model names not being targetable (is that a word?) and merely part of the fluffy nature of the world would solve any confusion in the future.

Many other games have had to make this call. Is a model called "Franz the Elf Killer" going to be affected by Smite: Elf? Of course not! But there have been arguments in the past over such things. Naturally, the person saying Franz is an Elf and suffers the Smite should be slapped with a fish, but I've heard many a weird and crazy debate over smaller and stupider things.

Okay, stepping off the soapbox. It's a fun conversation, even if the Dragon Turtle can't get a bonus from it.

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I'm sorry, but I completely disagree. Yes, we have models that are Vampire for the Race, as well as those with the Vampire SA, but Smite (Vampire) would only work against models with that Race. Also note, there is a difference between Dwarf as a Race and Dwarves as a Faction. Smite (Dwarf) and Smite (Dwarves) would not mean the same thing. Just because the Dragon Turtle has dragon and turtle in its name, does not mean it qualifies for SAs or FAs that say they affect Dragons or Turtles. The simple fact that Troll and Turtle are capitalized means the FA is referring specifically to the Race identifier. As a Beast, the DT doesn't qualify for the benefit, even if the FA had been written as Tough/+1 instead of Tough/1.

 

~v

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A name is nothing more than a name.

A dragon turtle is not a dragon or a turtle, it is a beast.

The bat swarm has vampire but smite vampire will not work against it. Neither would smite bat, or smite flyer. The data card says its an animal and has hover instead of fly.

 

Can you show me one dwarf card that doesn't say dwarf on the race?

 

Another example, the zombie queen in the necropolis is not a zombie, she is a human.

 

-Sin

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Sinden, you are right. My fingers typed the wrong stuff. All models are, indeed, dwarves by affiliation.

 

Well, one of you guys start a thread somewhere. I was learning something new.

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Have any of you Reptus gurus tried running a Brood rider heavy list? I just picked up my fifth one, and what was wondering if you guys think thats too much of a points sink for a 1000-1500 point game.

 

Theyre so cool lookin I cant keep from pick'n one up every time I go into my LGS. :wacko:

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