Crusaders

[ChudMacGud]

Hello all, I'm totally new to miniature wargaming. I have my heart set on starting out with Crusaders for Warlord, and have already painted and primed two minis. Ian the IC mage and Uriel the Guardian Angel. I have read this thread and saw a post stating that Uriel is only effective when an army is built around him. Can someone clarify and give me some examples on how to build an army this way. I checked out his datacard and it is quite impressive compared to most of the Crusader units. Other than cost, I don't understand why Uriel isn't included in many Crusader armies.

[Shakandara]

Impressive stats aren't everything; in fact, the game is often won and lost in the trenches with your soldiers. Big-stat models come at a price. In this particular case, 199 points. For ~ the same points, the Reptus could bring Gam-Nan with Armor of Courage, and six Gaan-Hor warriors. If the Reptus go first, it's over for Uriel. Even if Uriel goes first, the edge goes to the Gaan-Hor. This is true of all big models, especially solos. To be effective, you need to support them in the rest of your build, or you are wasting your points. This, of course, is no reason not to include him; you just need to be conscious of your goals with him when you do. Have a plan, and build accordingly.

 

Then report back, and tell us how it goes.

 

~v

[smokingwreckage]

I'm assuming that "build around him" means you have to devote all your points to keeping him from his kryptonite. Usually, getting swamped or plinked to death at range, possibly in this case getting swarmed by fliers. Also, you'd be looking for ways to keep him in the fight, like healing magic or items.

 

In almost any game, a big, superb, high-points model is actually very vulnerable.

 

For one thing, they are a trouble magnet. Back in my 40K days (like, the 90's) I used a Disposable Avatar strategem for Eldar: basically, get their attention with the big guy, then kill them with flankers. The trouble magnet worked in my favour.

 

For another thing, they are often points-inefficient. In most games a plain trooper with a bow, especially if you can power him up with a simple buff or leader, can be very efficient. He can be cheap, he can focus fire, and he often gets several free swings at an enemy while they try to close. Worst of all, when he takes down your big guy, your opponent will be insufferably smug.

 

Finally, with one big investment, you can leave your strategy transparent and hand your enemy the field. You lose the ability to disrupt his plans, or beat him at the initiative game. So, look for ways to disrupt and harry your opponent, or to bypass his subtle manoeuvres and bring the hammer down hard.

[Stubbdog]

So, the last two pointed out some of the possible negatives. But, there are plenty of positives about Uriel in a list as well. Uriel's spell casting gives plenty of options. Plus, even though it is true that He can be taken down by a swarm of flyers, if the other person did not bring a swarm but rather only a few, or even none, then Uriel becomes a huge bonus in the sky.

 

I will see if I can make a couple of decent example lists with explanations later tonight.

[Shakandara]

Ok, here's an example of a build including Uriel that helps keep the heat off him.

 

Crusaders - 999 points

 

Troop 1

Mother Superior Kristianna

Saramonde, Chronicler

Ivy Crown Skirmisher x 6

Templar Ironspine x 3

Ivy Crown Archer x 2

 

Troop 2

Herne, Light Lancer w/Armor of Courage

Isarah, Cleric of Shadarzaddi

Ivy Crown Light Lancer x 4

War Dog x 2

 

Troop 3

Garr, War Dog

Hound of Judgment

War Dog x 4

 

Troop 4

Uriel, Guardian Angel

 

First, we've got model count; the list has 28 models. That's a hair bigger than your average 1K list, but it comes at the cost of some lower DVs and MAVs. That's ok, we'll make up some of that.

 

Second, You've got a good spread of model types; archers, casters, cavalry, and your flyer. The mix of types keeps your opponent from easily focusing on any one facet of your army (like Uriel), without exposing himself to the threat of the others.

 

Third, the list has speed - blazing speed in some cases. The IC's (skirmishers, archers, and cavalry) all have at least Ranger/6 (Ranger/8 for Herne and the lancers), plus the lancers are MOV 10, Uriel is MOV 10 in the air, and all the dogs are at least MOV 8. Additionally, the dogs have Rush Attack, the Hound has non-corporeal (so unaffected by terrain modifiers), and the cavalry have Swift Attack, so they can hit and retreat. Finally, you have Isarah to Burst of Speed the Cavalry unit for even greater striking range. If your opponent ignores them to take down Uriel first, show them that speed kills.

 

Fourth, you have some deck control, with a Spy, a Tactician, and one solo that can be left off the table for Summoning.

 

Fifth, you have three casters with buff spells galore, and Uriel is a warcaster. When Isarah isn't busy doing Burst of Speed, a nice Iron Skin from her plus a Divine Might by Uriel when he is already engaged turns him in to a ridiculous melee killing machine. If you can delay Uriel's involvement and save the spell points from Kristianna, a late-game Matyr's True Restoration on Uriel can finish an opponent or turn the tide in your favor. In the rounds when your casters are not assisting Uriel, Blessings, Lay on Hands, and Divine Vigor are great options for increasing the effectiveness of the troops.

 

A list like this will keep your opponent engaged across the board so that Uriel can do the heavy-lifting. By Summoning him with Isarah (either late in Round 1 or early in Round 2), you can protect him in early engagements and get your buff spells on him to make him more effective. If you've protected him well enough, he'll make it to Turn 4, where the MTR spell would be a great opportunity to send him back to full health for 2 more rounds of butt kicking.

 

~v

Edited October 10, 2012 by Shakandara

[Stubbdog]

Vince, I think you left the Hound off your list by accident.

 

Here is another possible list with a little different approach:

 

Crusaders - 1000 points

 

Troop 1

Sir Brannor, Justicar

Armor of Courage

Isarah, Cleric of Shadarzaddi

Ivy Crown Light Lancer x 2

Templar Knight x 3

Templar Ironspine x 2

 

Troop 2

Sister Majeda, Battle Nun

Auricus, Pegasus Rider

Ian, Mage Apprentice

Templar Knight x 3

Templar Ironspine x 3

 

Troop 3

Uriel, Guardian Angel

Familiar

Holy Armor

 

Troop 4

Celestial Lion

 

Troop 5

Luck Stone

 

Leaving

So, with this list, I made sure to include both models that you said you had (Uriel and Ian). I think for this particular list Ian is not as well suited but adding him anyway.

 

Basically, I am adding in several casters, both leaders and elites, for their ability to summon in Uriel (and / or the Lion) at a later time. Brannor and Majeda happen to be healing casters as well, so they could at some point during the game use a spell to heal the Angel some.

 

Similar to Vince I also have Isarah in the list for her ability to Burst Speed, and also to Iron Skin. Burst of speed gets her and her group across the board quickly, where she can then summon Uriel and the Lion into just the right spot, then run back. I have given Uriel the Holy Armor to give some insurance on the defense.

 

I also have included the Pegasus rider to give a bit of air support (along with its great speed and ability to do a hit targets anywhere on the board quickly - 14 inch charge and swift attack)

 

I dont have a lot of time right now to describe the rest of my reasons for including different models, but needless to say, it is another option to use to include Uriel in what could be a very affective way.

[Shakandara]

No, it's there; I used the Judgement Doctrine to field it as an Elite in Garr's troop.

 

~v

[ChudMacGud]

Thanks a lot everyone, this has been amazingly helpful. The point cost for Uriel is insane but I'm excited to see what he can do. I am now pretty confident in building a decent army. I have my heart set on Gerard as the Warlord. I would like to include Brannor in my list as well as a balance of Templar Knights, Ironspines, and Unforgiven.

[ChudMacGud]

I have been curious about color schemes for the Crusaders. I have been painting my army pretty uniformed. White cloth with red trim sporting silver armor trimmed with gold. I love how it looks, it's not drastic or flashy yet I can't help but feel a strange sense of regret; like I should have used Crusader Blue instead of red. I'm kind of a perfectionist and my love for Warlord and it's lore has me feeling like I'm going against how the Crusaders were conceptually designed. As if my color scheme would not make sense to the story.

I am curious to know what color scheme other Crusaders players have used for their armies. Please share and give feedback:)

[ObsidianCrane]

Well no feedback on Crusaders but that description sounds like the Sisterhood colour scheme.

[Don Rodolfo Graziani]

I am painting my Crusader force slowly. The color scheme is red, black, and white. White tabards are trimmed in troop colors. Black cloaks/cloth for nuns and heavy troops. Red for Ivy Crown forces. All three colors are painted in bands on shields. And the markings in gold. :D

[Shakandara]

Canon means nothing when it comes to the color of my armies. I want them to look good - period, paragraph. Nothing else matters. In that light, my Reptus are blue and orange (blue as the primary for ground models, orange as the primary for flyers, with the secondary colors flipped), with green trolls, and snakes and turtles patterned off of real-life schemes (for example, Ssudai is painted like a copperhead). My Crusaders are purple and cream. My Elves are autumnal colors (red, orange, yellow, warm brown, gold trim), and my Tembrithil are wintery (pale blue and cool, dark brown). My O'lords are black and metallic teal. My Necros are largely black and yellow. My dwarves are red and steel grey.

 

If your army looks good, who cares if it matches the fluff?

 

~v

[ChudMacGud]

Wow thanks a lot everyone, that was extremely helpful. I'm a lot more confident about how I'm building my Crusader armies now. I've been going with kind of a Templar theme and I'm happy with how they are turning out. I'm still very curious about more Crusaders army color schemes.

[Shakandara]

Dan (Wowahboy) did an army of "resurrection" Crusaders several years back, and also did them in a very templar-inspired scheme of white and red.

 

~v

[ChudMacGud]

Resurrection Crusaders? I'm interested, what exactly does that mean? Did you see pics of them? What I really like about the Crusaders is that there are "sub-factions" within them. Gerard's crusaders, Ivy Crown, Lion's Lancers, etc. I was thinking instead of making the entire Crusader faction uniformed by a single theme, painting each "sub-faction" a unique color theme. What are your thoughts on this idea. Also, I apologize for asking so many questions and requesting so much feedback. I am still pretty new to miniature Wargaming and the hobby and have a great deal of respect for those who are experienced in it.