Savage North Expansion

[scotty kahn]

Another faction I've always wanted to see fleshed out would be an all summoned elemental type of force.

All the leaders would be elementalist's and summon in most of their army when and where they were needed.

 

 

Probably way too difficult to make it a viable faction, but it would still be pretty cool imho.

[Gus Landt]

After buying two new books Razig players will still have to go online and download a PDF to play their faction. I call shananigans on that.

Why would they buy the Savage North expansion book if they didn't play any of the Savage North factions?

Because they play more than one faction including one in the SN and Razig and because if you are serious about the game you will need SN to understand what you have to compete against. Making an army list that best counters another faction is fun but it requires an understanding of the opposing faction that is best derived from the books.

So.... After the Savage North book, we can't ever do another book? Like one that included Razig? Because that would require the Razig player to have to purchase 3 books? So we have to put every potential future faction into a single book right now, and never release another book, or you are gonna call shananigans?

 

Just what, specifically, are you calling shananigans on? That we want to (finally) release a core rulebook of 10 factions without waiting another few months to finish playtesting the newer ones (and thus missing a GenCon release)? That we don't want to shoe-horn a unique faction like Razig into a book that doesn't make sense to put him into?

[jdripley]

I like the idea of the elemental/summoner army. As long as Summoned works like it did in Warlord 1 you have the option of deploying summoned models normally or bringing them in via a special action mid-game. Leaders would probably be predominantly casters who can summon, no doubt there'd be "acolytes" of some sort, living people who revere the power of this element or that, which can bulk out the army.

 

Stone Acolytes: big earthen shields, slow, but tough to take down.

Air Acolytes: lightly armored, quick-striking soldiers that are good at getting in and tying things up.

Fire Acolytes: Perhaps archers who light their arrows on fire? Seems to overpowered to give archers an aoe attack, but that'd be pretty sweet too.

Water Acolytes: hmm, my inspiration is running out. Perhaps a general run-of-the-mill soldier... to wear the enemy down, just as the continual action of water wears away stone.

 

Then the leaders could be grouped along the elemental lines as well. I'd think that the elites and solos would all be elemental creatures. Probably some of the more interesting soldier choices would be elementals as well. Small ones. You can have your ones that move across water fine, the ones that fly, the ones that burrow. Not sure what fire soldiers would do, but I'm sure somebody else's imagination can fill in the gaps!

[scotty kahn]

All of that sounds awesome!

 

I like the idea of the element worshiping acolytes as the "lesser" soldier types.

 

The water type of acolyte could be very difficult to hit but fragile ie. single damage tracks but decently high DV.

[claymoore]

So.... After the Savage North book, we can't ever do another book? Like one that included Razig? Because that would require the Razig player to have to purchase 3 books? So we have to put every potential future faction into a single book right now, and never release another book, or you are gonna call shananigans?

 

Just what, specifically, are you calling shananigans on? That we want to (finally) release a core rulebook of 10 factions without waiting another few months to finish playtesting the newer ones (and thus missing a GenCon release)? That we don't want to shoe-horn a unique faction like Razig into a book that doesn't make sense to put him into?

I'm laughing. My problem is that I am the advocate for promoting WL2 in my store but my partners do not want the store to have anything to do with it. They have been burned with useless stocks of books, figures no one wants and irrate customers who have begged them to take back Warlord minis at $.50/$. I have been trying to convince them that Reaper is committed to supporting WL2 and things will be different this time. Then they ask if everything you need to play will be in the new book. Well yes unless you play BSG or Koborlas. One partner played Koborlas so he wants to know when that faction will be represented in a book. "In the near future" does not go over well. Now I tell them that Razig will not be in either book and they call shenanigans on me but not in the light hearted way that I passed it on to you. They see a new core book that does not cover all the current factions, no data cards with mini, the need for a PDF download and promises just like in the past. As a result WL2 will not be brought in until the Savage North book is released. I give up so no more shananigans.

 

claymoore - I don't know that I get your objections here. It sounds more like you're objecting that Razig won't be in a book at all, than the fact it won't be in Savage North. Would you be happier if Gus told us Razig was going to be in book 3 or 4?

 

And I don't agree with the "I must buy every book" argument when a game is perfectly playable without the expansion books. As long as WL2 is playable without SN, that argument is weak, and sounds like an excuse to whine IMO.

Razig should be in the core rulebook. It has been around long enough.

I play differently than you do. If there are ten new factions in the SN I would find it necessary to know about them to play against them and buy the book. Just because I have a different viewpoint than you do, I am not "whining" and I resent that comment .

[Gus Landt]

So.... After the Savage North book, we can't ever do another book? Like one that included Razig? Because that would require the Razig player to have to purchase 3 books? So we have to put every potential future faction into a single book right now, and never release another book, or you are gonna call shananigans?

 

Just what, specifically, are you calling shananigans on? That we want to (finally) release a core rulebook of 10 factions without waiting another few months to finish playtesting the newer ones (and thus missing a GenCon release)? That we don't want to shoe-horn a unique faction like Razig into a book that doesn't make sense to put him into?

I'm laughing. My problem is that I am the advocate for promoting WL2 in my store but my partners do not want the store to have anything to do with it. They have been burned with useless stocks of books, figures no one wants and irrate customers who have begged them to take back Warlord minis at $.50/$. I have been trying to convince them that Reaper is committed to supporting WL2 and things will be different this time. Then they ask if everything you need to play will be in the new book. Well yes unless you play BSG or Koborlas. One partner played Koborlas so he wants to know when that faction will be represented in a book. "In the near future" does not go over well. Now I tell them that Razig will not be in either book and they call shenanigans on me but not in the light hearted way that I passed it on to you. They see a new core book that does not cover all the current factions, no data cards with mini, the need for a PDF download and promises just like in the past. As a result WL2 will not be brought in until the Savage North book is released. I give up so no more shananigans.

Everything they say is fair and deserved. I apologize that we are unable to meet their needs. Including 3 additional factions in the core book would have delayed it past the critical Gen Con date. After that, there are no real gaming cons left to promote it at until next year, and I couldn't justify that delay. Plus, it would have made the book too big to get the $19.95 price tag I got on it.

 

I will point out that Razig has never been available in any print form, so I don't understand the objection. No BSGs have ever been in print form either, and only 3 lupines have. I made the call that it would be cooler to have an entire faction of lupines in print form 3 months later, than to just have a handful mixed in with the mercs at release.

 

I do think that claiming the new core rulebook doesn't include everything you need to play is going pretty far out there. It is missing 3 datacards that were in the first book, and those datacards are promised in a book to come out a few months later.

 

I understood at the beginning of this project that it would be an uphill battle with many of the players of 1st edition Warlord. There were a lot of disappointments, and I am not expecting anyone to believe things are going to be all better now that I am here. I figure 6-8 months from now either you will acknowledge that I am starting a solid track record, or everyone will know I failed. Mad props to everyone willing to give me a chance though!

[BKBass]

Thanks for the props. Had a blast this sat, and when we got home we gamed some more!

 

Now as far as this book of the north thing....

 

I personally would love to see a good halfling / gnome faction. One based on magic and hit and run type tatics. I would buy a whole faction of something like this any day of the week over a elves or dwarves faction, and defiantly before a second faction of elves and dwarves.

 

Speaking of dwarves, a whole faction of dark dwarves would rock the party!

 

But the fact the BSG will be in it already means it will be a "must have" book so no complaints here!

[shakhak]

@claymoore

The only thing you have to tell your fellow gamers is that their factions aren't ready. Before this the lupines and BSG were more half faction than whole, to make them whole takes time. Razig started as a PDF "bonus" faction and instead of rushing them, they will be kept as such unless there is a chance to get them into print.

More or less, rushing things caused the disastrous decisions of the past. This time it's doing it right beginning to end. So while the wait sucks, it will be worth it once it's done. And I know how it feels, my two most played factions are Razig and Lupines.

 

 

I could see a good halfing faction in the future, something to counter the tiny evil gnomes.

 

I really like the idea of an all elemental force also. Lots of summoning and variety.

Edited June 23, 2009 by shakhak

[Heisler]

So I take it they have the same objections to Games Workshop? No, let me repeat, NO, armies in the core rulebook. Each army in its own faction book which take years, literally years, to get all into print and then by the time the last book is released (and in some cases some factions have never been released before the next edition) the cycle starts over. Datacards are in the book no need to put them in with the minis. I'm failing to see the issue. I will point out that my FLGS has never had a big Warlord following, despite my efforts. However, the Warlord line is one of the best sellers there so despite the game the minis have always sold well for them.

[kristof65]

Just because I have a different viewpoint than you do, I am not "whining" and I resent that comment .

I'm sorry you resent the remark, but it's still my opinion of it. Beleive it or not, I actually understand your viewpoint about wanting every book - I, too, like to own every book or resource published for a game, regardless of whether or not I play a particular army or faction.

 

Some companies **cough**GW**cough** deliberately count on that impulse most gamers have to buy everything, even going so far as to do things like not including any army building info in the core book. Reaper has always been more than fair in that regard - making things available online at no cost, creating and releasing new factions online for free when they could have charged for them, etc.

 

But I've come to realize that most games don't require me to buy EVERY book. I've learned that I don't have to buy everything to have a good time with a game. I've learned that complaining that a company is making me spend my money on their stuff - stuff that is purely optional to own, BTW - is really just whining.

 

Do I want both WL2 and SN? Yes. Will I buy both? Probably. Is Reaper forcing me in anyway to spend MY money on either or both? Nope, not at all. It's 100% my choice. Is complaining that Reaper is making you buy something whining? IMO, yes. YMMV.

 

Back to the subject of the thread -

 

I like the idea of the elementalist factions, too. Though I wonder if they wouldn't almost deserve their own book.

 

I'd like to see some different takes on fantasy staples that aren't highly represented elsewhere - a Dryad/Treeman army would be interesting, as would a Centaur army.

[rgtriplec]

I understand Claymoore's situation. From what I gather he is a store owner and not just a gamer and his business partner's don't trust Reaper. That should in no way be insulting to Gus because their dislikes for Reaper are most likely stemming from Lo5R, Exalted, Cav 1, and DHA. No, one can really blame a store owner that has gotten burned three or four times to be leery of Warlord or CAV2 or RotD. I know I personally bought whole boxes of Exalted minis for $.25 each a few years ago. My FLGs won't carry anything Reaper anymore. But, Reaper does have a great return policy for venders... so actually most venders probably shouldn't have a gripe.

 

But I also see Gus's. Ideally, it would have been nice to release everything together before the con season but that wasn't possible or practical in Gus's opinion.

 

Myself I would have rather the rulebook just have been the rules like a GW rulebook, and still have the yearly updated Rage document and Krugers journals. I thought that's the way we were going but I guess not.

 

I don't think comparing Warlord to GW is a fair comparison. GW releases a rule book and then they individually release faction books, but they never revamp every faction every edition. They may only give new faction books and new models to three factions in any given edition. And at no time is anyone ever in Limbo an unable to play, the current faction book is always good, which is not the case with Warlord2. A player who play Lupines, Gnomes, Razig and Sisters are out of luck for a couple months, which is why IMO the rulebook should have just been rules and have been released after a 2009 Rage document.

 

Hopefully after the rules and expansion Warlord will flourish and get great reviews in the post con season blitz. I think re-tooling two games, creating a third and starting a plastic and lead line, and the new pulp line while still producing the same amounts for all the existing lines is pretty good work for a little company in just a two year period. I think Reaper in general deserves mad props.

[claymoore]

So I take it they have the same objections to Games Workshop? No, let me repeat, NO, armies in the core rulebook. Each army in its own faction book which take years, literally years, to get all into print and then by the time the last book is released (and in some cases some factions have never been released before the next edition) the cycle starts over. Datacards are in the book no need to put them in with the minis. I'm failing to see the issue. I will point out that my FLGS has never had a big Warlord following, despite my efforts. However, the Warlord line is one of the best sellers there so despite the game the minis have always sold well for them.

The difference would be a proven track record including some of the most successful tabletop mini games of all time that generate a substantial revenue for the store. GW provides a lot to complain about but brings in the bucks.

 

There will be actual datacards in the books. Cool. I thought there would be stats like in the original book but not actual cards that you can remove from the book via perforations to use at the gaming table with your warbands.

 

Just because I have a different viewpoint than you do, I am not "whining" and I resent that comment .

I'm sorry you resent the remark, but it's still my opinion of it. Beleive it or not, I actually understand your viewpoint about wanting every book - I, too, like to own every book or resource published for a game, regardless of whether or not I play a particular army or faction.

 

Some companies **cough**GW**cough** deliberately count on that impulse most gamers have to buy everything, even going so far as to do things like not including any army building info in the core book. Reaper has always been more than fair in that regard - making things available online at no cost, creating and releasing new factions online for free when they could have charged for them, etc.

 

But I've come to realize that most games don't require me to buy EVERY book. I've learned that I don't have to buy everything to have a good time with a game. I've learned that complaining that a company is making me spend my money on their stuff - stuff that is purely optional to own, BTW - is really just whining.

 

Do I want both WL2 and SN? Yes. Will I buy both? Probably. Is Reaper forcing me in anyway to spend MY money on either or both? Nope, not at all. It's 100% my choice. Is complaining that Reaper is making you buy something whining? IMO, yes. YMMV.

 

Back to the subject of the thread -

 

I like the idea of the elementalist factions, too. Though I wonder if they wouldn't almost deserve their own book.

 

I'd like to see some different takes on fantasy staples that aren't highly represented elsewhere - a Dryad/Treeman army would be interesting, as would a Centaur army.

Nowhere in my posts do I say that Reaper is making me buy anything. My comments deal with lack of content that I would have liked to have included in the new books. To claim that anyone is making me buy hobby materials is not just whining it is ludicrous. Please do not misquote me either directly or through implication.

 

I understood at the beginning of this project that it would be an uphill battle with many of the players of 1st edition Warlord. There were a lot of disappointments, and I am not expecting anyone to believe things are going to be all better now that I am here. I figure 6-8 months from now either you will acknowledge that I am starting a solid track record, or everyone will know I failed. Mad props to everyone willing to give me a chance though!

 

Best wishes to you for success with the WL2 project.

[rgtriplec]

On a lighter note, I think a whole faction could be derived from DKS's Halfling Dragon rider. Two great things that go great together. I'd like to see some baby dragons toast a few BSG's or roast a couple reptus.

[shakhak]

...snip...

 

There will be actual datacards in the books. Cool. I thought there would be stats like in the original book but not actual cards that you can remove from the book via perforations to use at the gaming table with your warbands.

I just want to make a note so that there isn't any confusion. I'm pretty sure that there aren't any punch out cards in the rule book. What we know as stat "cards" are the blocks of stat info that we've always seen. Gus will have to confirm this, but I'm pretty sure we'll be seeing the familiar stat blocks.

 

After playing Confrontation and watching how actual cards can make a game spiral into complete unbalanced gameplay, I'm glad that we'll only have stats in the book. Of course this is my opinion only after getting burned.

 

On a lighter note, I think a whole faction could be derived from DKS's Halfling Dragon rider. Two great things that go great together. I'd like to see some baby dragons toast a few BSG's or roast a couple reptus.

The more halfing on the battlefield, the easier the battlefield is too walk on. The Reptus love halfling carpet, it reminds them of the swamp.

 

 

So what kind of North should we be expecting in this book? Frigid Mountains or something less harsh?

[Stubbdog]

Can we please keep this thread on topic ???

 

Take the book arguments somewhere else.