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Right off, let me tell you I didn't have fun this game. I felt like pulling out my hair. Nothing worked. Okay, how about some background. It was a team game, 2 vs 2, 750 points each player. I teamed with Greenie and his Crusaders. I brought out the Overlords because I felt 750 was too small to build a good Vampire army. Overlords, in my opinion, are good for having throw away grunts and big guns. I had Matisse + Spiked Armor, 3 Warriors, and 2 Crossbows. Andras, 3 Warriors, and 2 Crossbows. Incarnation of Flame. The Onyx Golem. I felt it was a solid list. I still do. But it can't beat the Damage Reduction Express. Not Sure (that's his handle here) teamed with Wildbill. He brought Nefsokar and every single model had DR. Everything I threw at him bounced. The sheer number of wounds he happily avoided sucked all the fun from the game pretty early. You cannot break DR with an Overlord Warrior. The Incarnation of Flame died when it got attacked by TWO Soldiers, probably worth about 50 points. Oh I was landing blows...and they bounced. Greenie landed blows and they bounced.

Now I don't need a lesson in how to fight Nefsokar or Damage Reduction. I know how to take them out. I just can't stomach watching all my attacks do NOTHING. Over and over tonight the same thing happened. Myself or Greenie attack/defensive strike. Someone calls out (we're pretty vocal) "One hit!", and then someone else says "Damage Reduction" and whatever thrill of hitting is gone.

Sorry if this is a lame battle report. All DR armies crush the soul of the game. I'd rather face the Daisy Chain any day.

Now let's hear from the other guys in the fight.

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I played tons of all DR armies during playtesting, and ended with a relative 50/50 win ratio. I know you said you don't need tactical lessons, but... ::P:

 

In my experience, you just gotta focus on having 2-3 models attack each DR soldier at a time. Even if you have the same # of models as the enemy, you just ignore half or more of his models and team up on a few at a time. 2 Overlord Wariors on 1 DR soldier will regularly score 2 hits. I see you also had x-bows in each unit. I am surprised they weren't able to do that last point of damage each activation after you scored the first hit with a warrior. :wacko:

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I have to agree with both of you. The first time I played against DR models it was pretty discouraging. Once you get used to them, they can be taken out. They are just another SA that is nasty if you don't deal with it correctly. Gus summed up how to fight a DR army pretty well.

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In my experience, you just gotta focus on having 2-3 models attack each DR soldier at a time.

 

Do you guys even play with terrain? :unsure: Seriously, because while you can make claims like that it seems like you are just playing on a wide open battlefield. :unsure: When we play, there is terrain all over the table, and BOTH teams/players make every attempt to get full advantage it. So, yes, you MAY get 2 models into b2b contact with a DR model, but when you are facing an army of equal or possibly greater size than you, it isn't necessarily that easy to pull off!!

 

Anyways, the teams were Warwick playing Overlords and Greenie playing Crusaders vs myself playing Dwarves and Not Sure playing Nefsokar. And, no, Not Sure did not field a solid DR army. He had one model without it: Fatima. ::P:

 

Here is my army list:

 

Fulumbar Ironhammer

Ivar Silverfist

4 Berserkers

4 Halberdiers

Musician

 

Earth Elemental

 

Hagard the Maimed + Mithril Armor + Magic Weapon

5 Kneebreakers

Musician

 

Earth Elemental

 

Luck Stone

 

Totals: 750 Points, 18 Models, 4 Init Cards

 

Random Thoughts

1) DR definitely made a huge difference in the game for me: it made ME the target of most of Warwick's and Greenie's attacks. Sure, they attacked Not Sure, but it was usually when he gave them no other choice. At the end of the game, I only had 3 models remaining on the board, all from the same troop: a Berserker, a Halberdier (not the musician), and a Ivar! :lol: Luckily, all 3 were unhurt, but Ivar only had 1 SP remaining.

 

2) Speaking of SPs, that was probably the best game I have had with Ivar in a really ReallY REALLY long time! Turn 1 he just moved into position. Turn 2 he cast Mass Cure and healed up that remaining Berserker, Fulumbar and Hagard. Turn 3 Fulumbar moved out of range as Ivar cast Mass Cure again, healing the same Berserker and Hagard again. Turn 4 he laid hands on the Berserker, and that's where it ended. We ran out of time! :wacko:

 

3) If we had managed to go through 5 cmplete turns, I'm not really sure how the outcome would have been. I only had the 3 models remaining, but Greenie had a pretty tough Justicar unit that I think was still capable of dishing out damage. My team had a 5 to 4 init card advantage, but how those hit the table would have greatly determined the victory of margin. At then of turn 4, we were ahead by about 200 or so points. We had gotten lucky taking out the Incarnation, Onyx Golem and Matisse, which boosted our point total way up there. If they had the init cards go their way, then we may have ended up more even at the end. Oh well! I guess that's what we get for drinking too much beer and telling too many jokes! :lol:

 

4) DR turned out to be our saving grace this game. We ended up having a scrum for it all in the middle of the table, in and around the various pieces of terrain. Not Sure's models having DR/1 actually proved to be more of a help than we thought it would. The DVs of his models weren't exceptionally high by any stretch, but I don't know if Warwick and/or Greenie just rolled badly against Not Sure's models or what, but both of Not Sure's Avatars of Sehkmet were unhurt on the table, his Chosen unit only had one Daugther, and his Ammat unit had a couple of Devourers and Daughters remaining. Both of my Elementals died, though, as well as Hagard. :down:

 

5) Not Sure used the People of the Wind doctrine, and delayed the Incarnation for one turn. That was pretty sweet. It allowed us to get into it with the other team in the middle without fear of a Fireball! I hate fireballs. :grr:

 

6) D'oh!!! It just occurred to me: I 100% completely forgot to use my doctrine the ENTIRE game!! DAMMIT!!!!!! :grr::grr::grr: I took the doctrine that gave me an extra Defensive Strike if I was hit. **Sigh** :down:

 

All in all, I had an ok time of things. It sucked getting picked on by the opposing team the whole game, but what can you do? ^_^

 

Wild Bill :blues:

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This was also the first game that proxy didn't work. Using Razig to proxy anything but Razig doesn't work. I think both Greenie and I deployed and played turn one as if Not Sure had loads of ranged attacks...because his models had loads of ranged attacks. It's like fielding a bunch of archers and trying to play them as warriors. Also, because of the undead Razig models I made an error with the Incarnation of Flame. That got me pissed and I sacrificed the Incarnation because we were running out of time and I needed to kill at least one more model Silly of me to think a 151 point monster could take a DR1 model. Very silly.

You know I love proxy, but next game Not Sure needs to use my proxy army instead of Razig.

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I maybe lost 6 models last night which amounted to less than 250 points, including a musician. Without the DR, the troops that I fielded are your everyday 2-track grunts with one or two MA. Without DR, WB and I would have been hosed for sure. Warwick and Greenie had better field positions than WB and I had, because of the way turn 1 initiatives went. We were forced to move early and it was very haphazard. I even held back half of my force in preparation for a flanking maneuvering by Greenie's cav troop.

 

I guess what is the most surprising to me is how cheap the Nefsokar guys are compared with how tough they are. WB had 3 models left. I had similar guys, but with DR/1 added on and it made all of the difference. Yet, for 750 points I was able to field 17 models, of which 16 had DR. Fatima managed to stay out of harm's way the whole game and I used her to bless the Troop 1 every turn. Add in group bonuses and my guys would basically hack & slash anything in their path with no retribution. I even forgot to use Ammat's Magic Weapon and group/blessing bonuses a few times and it still didn't make much of a difference. I just steamrolled in whatever direction that I pointed Troop 1 and the Avatars.

 

Here was my army list:

 

Troop 1

Ammat

Magic Weapon

Fatima

Ammat Devourer x 4

Daughter of Sekhmet x 4

Musician

 

Troop 2

Avatar of Sekhmet

 

Troop 3

Chosen of Sekhmet

Daughter of Sekhmet x 4

Musician

 

Troop 4

Avatar of Sekhmet

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I also forgot to add in one last thing.

 

7) I made a crazy amount of tough checks on three models: my one lone remaining Berserker, Fulumbar and Hagard. The Berserker made at least one Tough check on each of Turns 2, 3 and 4. Fulumbar made one Tough check and stuck around. Hagard stuck around with at least one Tough check (probably two). Ivar helped them all out with some healing love. :wub:

 

Wild Bill :blues:

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In my experience, you just gotta focus on having 2-3 models attack each DR soldier at a time.

 

Do you guys even play with terrain? :unsure: Seriously, because while you can make claims like that it seems like you are just playing on a wide open battlefield. :unsure: When we play, there is terrain all over the table, and BOTH teams/players make every attempt to get full advantage it. So, yes, you MAY get 2 models into b2b contact with a DR model, but when you are facing an army of equal or possibly greater size than you, it isn't necessarily that easy to pull off!!

As long as there is room to put 3 models side by side, I can get a 2-to-1 advantage on the middle model.

 

Looking at the pics you guys posted in the DC thread, you do play with a ton of terrain. Much less open space than I have seen anyone else ever play with. Perhaps you are simply playing with too much? I'll try to post some pics of the typical boards we use at the shop.

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Not to turn this into a terrain topic, but Warlord is a skirmish game. Why do I own all this terrain if I only plop down 3 pieces on the board? I try to put six or seven in the middle, make it interesting, make it so it's not "line up your guys and I'll line up mine". Last night I got hampered by that damn rocky hill AND the tower in the center blocking my crossbows. That's why it's there. Then I drop down a few pieces near or in deployment zones to break up how an army sets up. I don't give it much thought as I don't want to give myself an advantage. We've played on open fields a few times. Sorry, but I find an open field boring. It always ends up my guys lines up like Roman soldiers, even though they are Merc rabble, versus your guys all lined up like Roman soldiers even though they are blood-screaming Dwarven berzerkers. Here is the game terrain. Keep in mind, the roll off winner can choose any edge to deploy from, not just left or right. I did ruined city last week. This week was outdoor excitement.

 

Overlords2vs2001.jpg

 

P.S. Spellcheck tried to turn berzerker into beekeeper! Dwarven Beekeepers!

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Don't you think having to dedicate three 25 point models to killing one enemy 25 point model is a bit much? That gives the enemy a 3-1 advantage on free models. What if I had been running models with single attacks, like Wildbill brought? Not even a ghost of a chance then.

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In reading through this whole thing I keep reading "Well, just get 3 or 4 in B2B" with the DR model and suddenly it will become clear as rain for you". In theory this sounds great but when you have 2 new players (Not Sure and myself) learning from 2 very experienced, and lets face it devious ::bleep's:: like Warwick and Wild Bill this nearly never happened. Each group of DR1 model and their accompanying Pike troop were separated by just a few millimeter's. And the other question I have is, If I am using 3 47pt. models to kill his single 35pt model....What is the rest of his entire army supposed to be doing while I am doing this? Having some tea and crumpets? Nope, they were repositioning killing off the squishier targets. If it had been more open terrain wise it would have been much worse.

 

List:

 

Troop 1:

 

Brannor - W/ Armor of Courage

Finari

Justicar x4

Hospitalier x3

Luck Stone

 

Troop 2

 

Herne

Ivy Lancer x4

 

Troop 3

 

Majeda

Sarmonde

Battle Nun x4

Hospitalier

 

747pts.

 

3 way tie for MVP: Brannor with his armor Inpired every round and it really helped against the Berserkers. Finari for the sheer amount of damage she was doing/ taking. Which brings me to the final MVP - The Hositaliers. I know Finari took over 9 wounds even having to take a tough check. Each time she would get hit these guys would patch her right back up. Out of the 3 in Troop 1 only one had a single CP left.

 

Overall not as bad a time as Warwick mainly because I got my big troop into melee with the squishy non-DR dwarves. But I had nothing but frustration when 2/3 of my troops couldn't deal with Not Sures flankers.

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Overall not as bad a time as Warwick mainly because I got my big troop into melee with the squishy non-DR dwarves. But I had nothing but frustration when 2/3 of my troops couldn't deal with Not Sures flankers.

 

In hindsight, I should have fully engaged your guys and let WB and Warwick go at it. WB really did take a pounding, because he had easier troops to go after. It was basically 2 on 1 and then there's me picking at your flanks at will.

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My MVP was absolutely General "I can't be wounded on turn two" Matisse! After deploying and first turn jockeying, I realized all these Nefsokar are coming from my left flank. The only troop to stand in the way is Matisse and 3 Warriors. Well, sacrifice is the name of the game. I charged in knowing we would die. Matisse takes a wound. Turn two and Matisse is swarmed by Dwarves, like five of them. He takes not one single wound. And he does it without DR, thank you very much. Then you slays some Dwarves. He lives in that mess for two more turns, dealing out death after death. He clogged that flank single-handedly. Of course, if I had remembered my stupid Faction Doctrine of moving wounds onto Soldiers, I might have lived even longer.

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You don't need any extra room to double up against DR models. A warrior in B2B, and a spearman behind him. Ideally, you would put 2 warriors in B2B. Unless your board is do filled with terrain that it is nothing more than 1" wide corridors, you can put 2 models in B2B. The 3rd model (spearman) stands behind.

 

Also, you don't need to outnumber your enemy. Heck, you can even be outnumbered. You simply ignore those parts of his army that you can't double up on. When fighting against DR armies, you just gotta focus on a few models at a time, and let the rest of his army sit there having tea and crumpets.

 

That said, there will be times, of course, where you are simply at a severe disadvantage simply because of the army you brought. The tactics above aren't going to work when you show up with a bunch of cavalry. Swift Attacks will, obviously, be useless. I am not saying you always have a shot at winning. :devil:

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