Sell Me On Warlord!

[shakhak]

The game will soon have tiny blood stone gnomes to squish, giant werewolves to cleave in half, and frost giants to torch and slaughter.

 

Why would you play anything else?

[jdchap]

It seems as though you're sold all ready, but I'm throwing in my 2 cents also.

 

The best part to me is the factions within the faction, and how each faction plays a certain ability. I play Darkspawn, have no intention of playing the Daisy Chain (Unless I play for a million bucks sometime), but that doesn't mean my Darkspawn army is trash. You can play your Darkspawn vs my Darkspawn, and its not necessarily a mirror match. You play Demons, I go more Isiri heavy,and they play very different.

 

Also, playing abilities differently. My friend plays Nefsokar, uses the swift attack to soften up enemies for his main fighting force. I play Darkspawn, use the swift attack as a way to take out figs left behind or shaken up. More clean-up for me. Same ability, 2 different ways to use it.

 

Invest in the game, you will not be dissapointed.

[Amalor Myrnnyx]

Best part I love about Warlord (and BattleTech, come to that) vs games like GW is the complete lack of the WYSIWYG environment. Proxying is not only legal, but so is unpainted miniatures. Any skill level and budget can play.

[BKBass]

The game will soon have tiny blood stone gnomes to squish

 

Did you mean "To rule the LAND!"?

 

I've been playing rpgs and tabletop for longer than I'd like to admit but for me its not just been how fun the game is but also the quality of players it attracts. We have a great gaming group in the Dallas area and I truly believe the way cool, positive vibe of Reaper as a company bleeds into the type of people who play it's games.

 

They say your judged by the company you keep, and I have no problem with hanging with Warlord every week!

[Sir Drake]

Well, I'm not a GW apologist, but let me clarify a few things that I feel are "wrong" here.

 

1. GW's fantasy game can be played with smaller armies, and can go pretty fast. But you will find the majority of players like to play around 2K to 2250 points. This usually ranges about 100 miniatures. But I have seen them as small as 30 or so, to as many as 300 depending on the armies.

 

2. GW's GT's do allow proxies, as long as they are either original sculpts, mostly citadel miniatures, and your opponent doesn't get confused on what they are looking at. While they usually require painting, at their upcoming 'Ard Boyz, painting is optional.

 

3. Much more prevalent than GW GT's is the Indy GT circuit (around 2 dozen in the US this year). Here proxies, are allowed, any manufacturer is allowed, and painting is usually optional but counts into your overall score. (I think 1 requires painting) Personally I never attend a GT with an unpainted army.

 

Now onto more about Warlord:

4. My 1K point list right now has 24 models. I would imagine my 2K or 2250 point list would include upwards of 50 models. (my current GW list has 52 models.) And would probably take the same time as a GW fantasy game. About 2.5 hours.

 

5. GW is pushing more for plastic models, to lower costs. Warlord is all metal, which is very sweet, but by the same token can be expensive. My 4 man Light lancer group is $60 retail ($15 each). So lets not blow smoke up someone's arse. On the other hand, the starter sets are an incredible value.

 

6. However, besides those few outlying pieces, the majority of models are around $4-$6 for some beautiful sculpts that I feel are better "overall" than GWs

 

7. I feel the GW armies have become unbalanced. While looking through the warlords factions I haven't noticed that yet. I'll be able to tell more as I play against more factions.

 

8. The RAGE system does allow for less systematic playing and more dynamic play. Which can be considered either way. There are positives and negatives to this.

 

Now onto what I like more about Warlord over the GW fantasy game.

 

Customer Support!! This is the #1 most important feature that Reaper and Warlord have over GW. They listen to their customers, they answer rules questions. Their rules are actually simple enough that if you read them carefully the answers are there. All the army lists are in 1 book, soon to be 2 books. Compared to GW's which have a separate book for every army.

 

Things I would like to see improved with Warlord.

1. Charge reactions. It would be nice if someone is charging you, if you could do something about it.

 

2. While Reaper does allow proxies, they require 100% reaper minis for their tournaments. While even GW lets you run non-citadel mini's on occasion. I know I ran my Rat Ogre army with Reaper Burrow Rats as chaos hounds, at a GW store with no problems. A little flexibility would be nice. Maybe a 80% rule, or something.

 

3. Maybe I'm playing this wrong, but I don't think so. If I have 4 guys run up and base a big guy and we fail to kill him. On his turn he has 2 attacks and puts them on only 1 guy or even splits them and hits 2 guys. They get defensive strikes, while my other 2 guys are standing around twiddling their thumbs, this just seems wrong.

 

******* and all of these I consider very minor.

 

Anyway, sorry this got long. Their are pros and cons to both systems. GW has more players and more "events" surrounding it. Warlord is designed for smaller games = less models = less dollars. The starter sets for $20 is a fantastic value far beyond anything GW puts out.

And Reaper support is far beyond GW's. Hopefully we will see Warlord grow and be as popular as the GW game.

 

I still play both, I still like both. Hope that helps some. ;)

[Shakandara]

5. GW is pushing more for plastic models, to lower costs. Warlord is all metal, which is very sweet, but by the same token can be expensive. My 4 man Light lancer group is $60 retail ($15 each). So lets not blow smoke up someone's arse. On the other hand, the starter sets are an incredible value.

But Reaper will never charge you a premium for a model just because it is better in the game than another. You always pay for metal and piece-count (multiple-part models cost more to make than single-part) with Reaper. What this means is that yes, you will sometimes pay more for the "grunts" in your army (plastic grunts built on the same body will always be cheaper than individual metal sculpts), but everything else in your army is likely to be less expensive.

 

1. Charge reactions. It would be nice if someone is charging you, if you could do something about it.

What did you have in mind? You already get Defensive Strikes when someone else engages you. If you are using models that have Pike (a defensively-minded model, built for handling Charging opponents) or First Strike, you get a swing that resolves damage before anything they do. Abilities like Fearsome and Nauseating also impact Charging models (either by denying them the Charge entirely, or denying them their attacks). Do you think there should be more things the prevent or hamper Charging? If so, what, and how?

 

2. While Reaper does allow proxies, they require 100% reaper minis for their tournaments.

A slight clarification here; Reaper models are only required for "official" Reaper tournaments. These only occur at ReaperCon, GenCon, etc. Anything else that is run on the local level by your neighborhood BL rep does not have this restriction. It seems like a pretty reasonable request to require all-Reaper armies to be fielded for Warlord tournaments at marquee event venues. I've been told to not even discuss non-GW games in a local GW store, let alone bring in an army of non-GW proxies. I guess this is a case of YMMV depending on how "cool" your local store's staff is.

 

3. Maybe I'm playing this wrong, but I don't think so. If I have 4 guys run up and base a big guy and we fail to kill him. On his turn he has 2 attacks and puts them on only 1 guy or even splits them and hits 2 guys. They get defensive strikes, while my other 2 guys are standing around twiddling their thumbs, this just seems wrong.

Nope, you are playing this correctly. If you aren't attacked, you don't get defensive strikes. If every base contact were allowed such attacks, no one would ever field big guys, as the game would be incredibly skewed against them.

 

~v

Edited September 1, 2009 by Shakandara

[Sir Drake]

But Reaper will never charge you a premium for a model just because it is better in the game than another. You always pay for metal and piece-count (multiple-part models cost more to make than single-part) with Reaper. What this means is that yes, you will sometimes pay more for the "grunts" in your army (plastic grunts built on the same body will always be cheaper than individual metal sculpts), but everything else in your army is likely to be less expensive.

 

Absolutely, which is great. I think that is why the "overall" quality of the models is better as well. I don't have to spend a fortune to pick up a fantastic looking mini.

 

 

What did you have in mind? You already get Defensive Strikes when someone else engages you. If you are using models that have Pike (a defensively-minded model, built for handling Charging opponents) or First Strike, you get a swing that resolves damage before anything they do. Abilities like Fearsome and Nauseating also impact Charging models (either by denying them the Charge entirely, or denying them their attacks). Do you think there should be more things the prevent or hamper Charging? If so, what, and how?

 

It would be nice to have the ability to avoid an unwanted charge. I setup my defensive formation ready for the charge, only to have him leap over my guys and hit the hospitilar in the back of the formation.

 

Or if they are in a defensive position that is almost impossible to charge, the only way to get them to charge out is to sacrifice someone, who must stand there and take it.

 

Archers who can get charged on turn 1 before they ever let loose an arrow.

 

Fleeing and standing and shooting, are nice options. Obvious carry overs from GW's game.

 

I could see a couple possible ways to add these in, but they would require rule changes or SA additions.

And this is probably not the thread for that. But like I said, these are very minor. I understand if you put a guy out there to get charged, that is just the way of life. and or death. It is the game mechanic of this rule set. And I can live with that. Having played the other game for over 2 decades, you tend to start thinking that is the only way to do things.

 

A slight clarification here; Reaper models are only required for "official" Reaper tournaments. These only occur at ReaperCon, GenCon, etc. Anything else that is run on the local level by your neighborhood BL rep does not have this restriction. It seems like a pretty reasonable request to require all-Reaper armies to be fielded for Warlord tournaments at marquee event venues.

 

Yea, I can understand that. I guess the way it sounded to me, that even if I was to show up at the store to play a quick pickup game, I better have all reaper minis. Right now I'm using some GW hounds for my Warhounds until I get around to buying some, as I just picked up some light lancers, and the rulebook. So my game funds are limited right now. And while I could pull out those Reaper giant rats and run them as warhounds. Sorry that just looks and feels so wrong with my Crusader list. Personally, I'd rather have models look and feel like an army. Painted and at least close to what they represent, or be a themed proxy army. But that's me as a gamer.

 

I understand, you as a "company" want to show off the reaper miniatures.

 

And if they asked you to shut up in their store, that's pretty poor manners and frankly rude. Discussing other games, is just part of the hobby. As long as you weren't like trying to advertise, or offer bus passes to get them to leave the GW store, geez. But I know its a competitive business.

 

"Can't we all just get along?" *ducks*

 

 

Nope, you are playing this correctly. If you aren't attacked, you don't get defensive strikes. If every base contact were allowed such attacks, no one would ever field big guys, as the game would be incredibly skewed against them.

Figured that was the reason. Just seems weird, that they cannot lend support or do anything. And while it is put in for balance, it just feels odd when playing. I had to go back and read the rules 3-4 times as I figured I missed something.

 

Just a personal thing, I don't like rules that feel odd.

 

But again, minor game mechanic. If that prevents the 150 model slave armies, that is cool as well.

 

I'm not trying to bash Reaper, and I hope no one is taking it that way.

I've loved every Warlord game I have played so far and I love the miniatures. What more can a guy ask for.

[Warwick]

The only three venues I have EVER heard about demanding pure Reaper armies are GenCon, Origins, and ReaperCon. Not one other tournament has issues with proxy models that I have encountered. Don't confuse your opponent is the rule I have found. We have proxying from a four or five other companies. If it looks good and you like it and your group can tell the difference, go for it, I say.

I have one army that I make sure is 100% Reaper because it is my travel army to ReaperCon. Everything else is whatever I feel fits in.

[Shakandara]

It would be nice to have the ability to avoid an unwanted charge. I setup my defensive formation ready for the charge, only to have him leap over my guys and hit the hospitilar in the back of the formation.

Sounds like someone got to you with the Leap SA, which is kinda the whole point of its existance. Take comfort in knowing that only one of the 10 core factions has that SA (Nefsokar), so unless you are always facing a Sand Fleas opponent, you shouldn't get hammered by it too much. As for the rest of your examples... I think you are right, there are probably things that could be done to the game, but at what cost? Playability? Ease of understanding the rules? SA bloat? I think the vulnerabilites of models are a key point in balancing the game in making everything worthwhile of consideration during army creation. If archers could fire away without worrying about a Charge, no one would bother taking anything but; they'd just mow down the enemy as they tried to engage. I think the game seeks the fine balance between realistic tactical simulation and fun beer & pretzels game; game-play should make sense, but also be enjoyable.

 

Yea, I can understand that. I guess the way it sounded to me, that even if I was to show up at the store to play a quick pickup game, I better have all reaper minis.

If any Warlord player did that, I'd kick them in the... I'd give them a piece of my mind. You should never run into a situation like that. In fact, I encourage people that are trying out Warlord for the first time to use their existing armies from game X (poster tack to stick the mini to a different size base if needed - like from a 20mm up to a 25mm) until they a) figure out what faction they want to play, and b) start amassing enough figures to use for it. So bring whatever you want to play with until then! As you've said yourself, the Reaper models are generally reason enough to want to amass an army of them anyway.

 

~v

Edited September 1, 2009 by Shakandara

[vejlin]

Most of my local players started out with an army of miniatures intended for other games and tacked to bases that make sense for Warlord. As time has passed miniatures have been gradually replaced with reaper miniatures, not because it's been a requirement but because people like the minis. And I wouldn't want it any other way. If you own a big WHFB army and also enjoy playing Warlord I see no reason to not use those GW minis in your warlord games, in fact when people express an interest in Warlord I often encourage them to try it out with their own minis, it just makes sense.

[Gus Landt]

I do the same. In fact, just 2 days ago I told a customer to bring in his GW undead army and I'd show him how to make a Necropolis army out of it.

[ViciousPanzer]

Not only did you tell him that Gus, heck you even suggested he use his Battletech minis before he mentioned he owned a warhammer fantasy army! If allowing city smashing robots as proxies in a fantasy game isn't lenient I don't know what is. lol

 

Joshua

[vutpakdi]

Anyway, sorry this got long. Their are pros and cons to both systems. GW has more players and more "events" surrounding it. Warlord is designed for smaller games = less models = less dollars. The starter sets for $20 is a fantastic value far beyond anything GW puts out.

The $20 starter sets were created for GenCon. As far as I know (as of GenCon), the $20 starters were only for GenCon. I'd love to see them in general distribution, but I don't think that they are going to be generally available.

 

Ron