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Hedgehog

d&d 4e

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The underlined part might have more to do with your DM then the actual system itself. Can you give us some examples of combat encounters you've faced?

 

It's not the details that are the same. (For that matter, one Warlock in 3.5 can play very differently than another.) The problem is that all classes have a few at-will powers, one of which is normally the obvious choice when an encounter or daily isn't warranted. The choices aren't interesting very often and the style of choice doesn't change very much with character class.

 

In 3.5, there is more variety of choices both within and between classes.

 

(For reference, when I can get the right group, I prefer Hero System, in which the choices are even broader.)

 

Don't get me wrong; Warlock was fun for the first 9-12 months of play, but after that the experience palled. And I started getting the same vibe with the very first session of 4e that I played.

 

Clearly, 4e works well for a significant portion of the gaming market. It fails miserably for me.

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The underlined part might have more to do with your DM then the actual system itself. Can you give us some examples of combat encounters you've faced?

 

It's not the details that are the same. (For that matter, one Warlock in 3.5 can play very differently than another.) The problem is that all classes have a few at-will powers, one of which is normally the obvious choice when an encounter or daily isn't warranted. The choices aren't interesting very often and the style of choice doesn't change very much with character class.

 

In 3.5, there is more variety of choices both within and between classes.

 

(For reference, when I can get the right group, I prefer Hero System, in which the choices are even broader.)

 

Don't get me wrong; Warlock was fun for the first 9-12 months of play, but after that the experience palled. And I started getting the same vibe with the very first session of 4e that I played.

 

Clearly, 4e works well for a significant portion of the gaming market. It fails miserably for me.

 

 

This can be resolved through homebrewing though. Have you tried making up your own powers?

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This can be resolved through homebrewing though. Have you tried making up your own powers?

 

If I'm going to write my own game, I'll not start with a game that I cordially dislike. There's no shortage of better rules sets for that. (Plus, Hero, see above. <_< )

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This can be resolved through homebrewing though. Have you tried making up your own powers?

 

If I'm going to write my own game, I'll not start with a game that I cordially dislike. There's no shortage of better rules sets for that. (Plus, Hero, see above. <_< )

 

Eh. Different strokes for different folks.

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1st ed for me all the way. but ive played all the editions,and one thing that stands out to me is...the GM(or DM)makes or breakes any system. i mean ive had great games with good GMs,and bad games with really slow,poor gamemasters. that said,i played a RPGA game at last years GAME STORM 09,and had alot of fun. is this because of the system we played? i think not. more likely,i had a very good GM. and thats my two copper pieces on that. also WFRP 3rd ed looks like 4th ed D&D to me. and i think thats a shame,cause WRP has always been very original.(thanx FFGs for the 4th ed D&D copy!):rock:

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I thought the same thing about WH3 myself actually. Epically after seeing it at the semi- LGS over in Boise. Just it's presentation is why I thought that thou, as I've never have read the rules (fan of the original WFRPG from GW).

 

Myself, I'm a fan of both 4e & Pathfinder. At first I didn't really want anything to do with 4e as I didn't like how Wizards presented the materials/previews for 4e, but over time & playing in a game at RCON last year, my opinion changed. I decided that may run a 4e game at RCON later this year & I started a 4e game in the Sandbox area of here to get myself familiar with the rules & such.

 

I've been a fan of Pathfinder since Paizo announced they had to pull the plug on Dragon & Dunegon Magazines a couple years ago. I was a charter subscriber to Pathfinder Adventure Paths + everything else, but I had to drop it due to cash reasons & now just pick up whenever I feel like it. I have picked up rules book & new monster book.

 

I like both due to while both are D&D, I still get that "different" game feeling with both. Pathfinder for the traditionalist in me & 4e for the new style. If I had to choose just 1 system, it would be Pathfinder, but that is I like the quality of Paizo's products over Wizards.

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I won't play 4e because I don't like the focus on powers n' such. I won't play 3.5 unless I void the tactical / miniature combat/ movement rules. The same goes for Pathfinder. I'll be playing Rolemaster2/Classic or Express or a OGL retro-clone (including Castle & Crusades) if I play any fantasy rpgs.

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FLGS hat on...

 

Something is going on with 4E. 4E didn't sell for me until I put it all up at 20% off. I doubt it's just me - they ran a special for the "Holidays" where you could buy both the PHB I and II for the price of one. I just ordered the combo special today (I have a Con coming up) - it's STILL available. If you can't sell core books at 50% off, something is not good. I'm guessing they're not picking up the hallowed "new gamers" they were planning on...

 

Anecdotally, I had a guy come in and demo 4E. My local players (who had no vested interest in disliking it, since nobody was playing an RPG at the time) thought it was "too complicated". That's not good news for a game promoted on being easier to grasp for newbies.

 

My regulars have ignored D&D in favor of Savage Worlds, it outsold all D&D combined until I put 4E on sale...

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The two forwards in the Pathfinder Core Rulebook sum my reaction to 4th up well enough in terms that can be used in a family-friendly environment.

 

If put into my own words, it would be one-half dissertation on the nature and evils of ego and hubris, and one-half swearing, screeching rant on greed, idiocy and reckless disregard.

 

I tend to go on and on, so I'll stop at that this time.

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You might find this amusing then...

If you look at the entire history of the RPG industry, you'll see the same, long, sad story: a mountain of conventional wisdom, usually backed by selective listening, that leads to a long chain of failed games and bad ideas.

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FLGS hat on...

 

Something is going on with 4E. 4E didn't sell for me until I put it all up at 20% off. I doubt it's just me - they ran a special for the "Holidays" where you could buy both the PHB I and II for the price of one. I just ordered the combo special today (I have a Con coming up) - it's STILL available. If you can't sell core books at 50% off, something is not good. I'm guessing they're not picking up the hallowed "new gamers" they were planning on...

 

Could the recession we are having right now have anything to do with this?

I wonder if 4E would sell better if the books were paperback and cheaper?

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Or, more to the point, how does DDI affect book sales?

 

Damon.

I'd say both the economy and DDI has affected book sales. Normally, I'd buy the books, however, with the rules being in the character generator and money being tight I can't justify buying the books.

I'd also say bittorrent has a definite effect.

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Yes the economy is hurting all hobbies including RPGs . I can't comment on 4e & it's possibly waning popularity. I just wish ICE would do more to promote it's far superior RPGs like Rolemaster Classic , Rolemaster Express & HARP (yes I'm biased LOL).

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So I tried 4e, and found that it's probably the best written edition of D&D yet. It flows well, the rules don't have a lot of contridictions to cause arguments, the rule books are pretty clear and concise (once you ungrasp some things from previous editions, that is), etc. But all the emphasis on making it play well simply changed the balance of what I like/dislike about 3.5e and other editions of D&D.

 

When it comes down to it, I'm still not a big fan of the class/level system of any edition of D&D. Therefore, I saw no point in changing editions. Most of the people I game with were the same way - they saw no point in switching, although some of them had different reasons than I did.

 

At this point, the only way I'm likely to switch is if something happens to my current collection of 3.5e books - if they were to get stolen, ruined in a flood or house fire, etc, I would reassess the situation, and make my determination then whether to replace them with Pathfinder or 4e.

 

@Dragon Snack - from the FLGS perspective, how is WFRP 3e being received?

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