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Played two games this weekend and got trounced both times. Admittedly we are still learning the rules, but it feels like something is badly broken.

 

Game 1 500pts

troop1

Lanarch

lysette

Peruhain

vale warrior x4

 

troop 2

Varashia

archer x2

vale warrior

 

troop 3

unicorn

 

After a little initial jockeying around for positions the line of archers got charged and decimated by lizard warriors. Didn't scratch them with defensive strikes.

 

Lanarch completely failed to get chain lightning off on said lizard warriors. Troop 1 then got trampled by the krung beast and I lost the 4 warriors and Peruhain and the last archer that had fallen back. Lysette and Lanarch went at the enemy valiantly and made no hits. I got one hit on the krung beast with the unicorn before we agreed the game was over.

 

Game 2, 500pts

 

troop1

Lanarch

Lysette

Peruhain

vale warrior x5

vale longthorn

 

troop 2

Varashia

archer x2

vale warrior

 

Moved units around getting into position... Krung beast trampled the complete line of archers again, taking zero damage.

 

Peruhain got Blessing off on troop 1 before they engaged. Lanarch managed to do 1 pt of damage to a single lizard warrior with chain lightning. Then the troop scattered to avoid the krung beast. Lysette got mind blast on it, which slowed it down for one round.

 

Engaged a trio of river trolls, did 1pt of damage. Lost a couple of the warriors. The reptus warriors swung around and finished off everyone but Lanarch, and took no damage.

 

 

So, did I bring the wrong models to the fight, or the wrong faction?

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Any high DV opponent is going to be a tough fight for elves. Often an Elf army relies upon many low MAV attacks to bring down an enemy, and high DV is just bad odds for that style. Peruhain is a quality model for the elves though, as Bless can increase your odds to hit - as you know.

 

You said the Krung trampled you - you've got to space out your models if that's something you're facing. If he can only squish one of your models a turn Trample is kindof pointless, and regardless of the faction the solution is to space out your models. Ranged models don't really rely upon being in any particular formation, so long as they have line of sight and range on their targets - unlike melee models that like to bunch up and try for support bonuses and all of that jazz.

 

Finally - and this may not have been much of an option as Reptus tend to have high DV's outside of the snake models - archers are pretty good at picking off less defensive models. It is somewhat of a waste to shoot arrows at models that you need to roll 10's to hit if there are targets available that you need even just 9 or 10's to hit. Your odds to hit double if you can hit with a 9 as well. Yes you could get lucky and level a big important model with archers early, but it's more likely that you just whiff and waste the shots. Again, fighting Reptus that may not have been an option.

 

Ok one more thought: I like your use of magic, it gives the Elves a way to attack at a higher value than the typical elf MAV or RAV (actually this holds true for most factions) and can offer you a way to crack models that are otherwise difficult to bring down.

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I it aint so, Ive ahd tremendous success with the elves.

That being said they take some work and finesse. You list sounded good to me but it will take some trial and error to get it down good.

Jd had some good advice take it and fly

Good luck

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At the 500 point level the game is completely different than at the 1000 point level. More than any other size at 500 points I personally try to bring as few troops as possible and pack as much firepower into them. For the elves I would have relied on something more like this:

 

Elves - 496 points

 

Troop 1

Larnach the Grey

Peruhain, Elven Monk

Caerwynn

Vale Archer x 2

Death Seeker x 3

Hunting Cat x 4

 

Troop 2

Luck Stone

 

With this list you get a strong chance of controlling initiative through tactician and spy like you had before but you also get to focus your firepower more effectively. The Death Seekers bring serious melee punch with their ability to be Blessed by Peruhain and then Martyr (for a MAV of 7) which can be frenzied down to 4 attacks at MAV 5. That will result in the loss of a Deathseeker but when facing a big mean target (like a krungbeast) that's ok. THey can also use frenzy to turn their swift attack into 2 attacks (again with bless that allows them 2 @ 4) while facing only 1 attack on return.

 

With all of your ranged and magic in one troop it becomes very easy to use Larnach, Caerwynn, and the archers to focus on a target or targets to soften them up, again with bless the Archers become RAV 4 and Caerwynn is RAV 6, try mirror imaging Caerwynn or using Barrage on her for some added punch. This should effectively handle most flyers or lightly armored troops and stands a decent chance against heavier troops (Since Caerwynn has sharpshooter AND indirect shot).

 

Should the enemy get uncomfortably close just rush out the blessed (notice a trend here?) hunting cats to tie up enemies. The main benefit of hunting cats though si taht they are Short and don't block line of site for your archers. This means they can rapid shot over them continuously while they still provide a meaty shield.

 

An alternate list I might have chosen using the models you chose would look like this:

 

Elves - 499 points

 

Troop 1

Larnach the Grey

Lysette

Peruhain, Elven Monk

Vale Warrior x 5

Vale Archer x 3

 

Troop 2

Silvermaine, Unicorn

 

Troop 3

Luck Stone

 

Basically just condence them into one troop. It's better to throw knockout punches then trade jabs when you are the elves (this is generally true overall, but moreso for elves) and concentrated firepower in a troop allows for that. I don't have any secret special tactics with this list other than always focus with your casters (+1 CP is tremendous) and never underestimate the power of a well placed stun. Ice Shard is a great 2 point spell for slowing down big angry models as stunned denies them an action on their activation.

 

I treat the unicorn as a one shot one kill sort of caster seeking missile. Since it ignores inervening terrain and models I would rush attack it at the fiercest enemy caster and with some small luck hit it for 3 points of damage (at the very least crippling their ability to cast). The Unicorn is no doubt deep in enemy terrain and likely to get shellacked at that point but that is another advantage! Every round the enemy spends not advancing towards the shooties is a good round ::D:

 

I hope some of this info was helpful and gave you some insight or ideas on future tactics you might like to use. ::):

 

Joshua

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If you can't maneuver well, the elves are a hard army to win with but they can be effective if you can hit and run. But, yes in toe to toe melee they are weak compared to the other factions.

 

If you want a vale inspired list, I would suggest playing at 1000 and taking a totem. I would take Larnach and max his troop out and use his stealth ability. Also, use the protectors doctrine you get +1 mav and dodge for swift attacks. Take Swordsman instead of warriors as the list built around swift, so you only need 1 MA anyway. While Swift attacking the Swordsmen's Mav will be 5 without being blessed or support... so they could go as high as 7 with support and good casting by Peruhian.

 

Elves - 1000 points

 

Troop 1

Larnach the Grey

Caerwynn

Lysette

Vale Swordsman x 10

Armor of Courage

 

Troop 2

Silvermaine, Unicorn

 

Troop 3

Selwyn

Peruhain, Elven Monk

Niriodel

Vale Archer x 5

Vale Swordsman x 5

 

totem

luck

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Aside from tactics, which I think were pretty well covered already by JD and Josh, I'd also questions your "luck" when it came to the dice. Larnach failed to get a single target on chain lightning? And then only succeeded on 1 target the 2nd game? The odds definitely do not favor that scenario. Reptus soldiers have an average MD of 12. Larnach has a CP of 9, even without Focus. He should succeed against 80% of the targets of a chain lightning, or in terms of a perfect situation, 4 out of 5 models. None and 1 are *not* typical results.

 

With the Focus action, the magical firepower alone of that list should have given the Reptus fits if used properly. Blessings by Peruhain in Turns 1 and 3 (only needs a 2 or better to succed with Focus) means that everyone in that Troop effectively has +1 to all their rolls for 4 turns of the game. You have 33 spellpoints of offensive firepower between Larnach and Lysette, more than enough to blast away repeatedly with their "big gun" spells. And then assuming you are playing Council doctrine, you can get back 1 SP per caster per round, keeping them viable even longer.

 

EDIT: A thought just occured to me. Are you playing Chain Lightning like it was written back in 1.x of Warlord? In WL2, Chain Lightning doesn't stop when you fail a roll.

 

~v

Edited by Shakandara
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Thanks for all the comments.

 

First game I had planned to use more magic to get troops buffed up before going into combat but the reptus hit fast and with the luck of the draw on action cards and I got creamed before I could cast. Likewise, second game my archers went down before I got an action to put spells on them.

 

It was because of the bless spell in game 2 that I was able to make the single hit on the trolls before that troop got eaten.

 

We were kind of confused on how chain lightning was supposed to work, if i was supposed to stop if you missed, or what. The first game the casting roll failed. The 2nd game I got one success out of 4-5 rolls. Yes, I was rolling really low most of the time. If that was an anomaly, it tells me the elves rely more on good dice (luck) than stats to win. It seems that unless I can roll a natural 10, nothing can hit reptus. I don't think my opponent was rolling much better than me, but with higher MAV and the low DV on the elves he got in way more hits.

 

Anyway, I have a few things I want to try before I give up on this game. I want to play with deathseekers and some of the larger monsters, and get in a few 1000 pt games and see how that changes things.

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First game I had planned to use more magic to get troops buffed up before going into combat but the reptus hit fast and with the luck of the draw on action cards and I got creamed before I could cast. Likewise, second game my archers went down before I got an action to put spells on them.

Getting creamed before you could cast? Perhaps we need a little more info on your game; what size table were you playing on? How big were the deployment zones? What was your opponent using for his list? On a standard 4'x4' board with 12" deep x 24" wide deployment zones, you should have no problems getting off at least 2 spells and 2 rounds of arrows, regardless of activation card pulls.

 

We were kind of confused on how chain lightning was supposed to work, if i was supposed to stop if you missed, or what. The first game the casting roll failed. The 2nd game I got one success out of 4-5 rolls. Yes, I was rolling really low most of the time. If that was an anomaly, it tells me the elves rely more on good dice (luck) than stats to win.

Ok, so you did the first Chain Lightning incorrectly; that explains that result. Getting only 1 success out of 4-5 rolls on the second one is an anomaly, but if anything, that is exactly the opposite of needing good dice/luck. If the MD's of your targets were the typical Reptus value of 12-13, your CP 9 caster should hit 4 out of 5 targets every time (on average). That means with "good" luck, you should connect on all 5 targets, and only with very, very poor luck, should you only hit 1 out of 5.

 

The Elves do not rely on luck any more than any other faction. Statistical anomalies, however, become more pronounced the smaller your sampling. Run those same games 98 more times, and the "averages" will start to appear.

 

~v

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I'm also not seeing anything about your Unicorn. We refer to those buggers as the "Elfin Cruise Missile". Their Blink ability along with all their other cool stats allows them to easily hunt the opponents casters and leaders. While they frequently die soon after their blitz attack, normally it's worth it to cause such mischief in the opponents rear ranks.

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Deathseekers and a treeman a favorite of mine, use peruhain to cast divine vigor which DOES stack and mossbeard or the unicorn can become twice as deadly.

I have put that on the unicorn three times and then sent it in for the kill, fantastic.

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Getting creamed before you could cast? Perhaps we need a little more info on your game; what size table were you playing on? How big were the deployment zones? What was your opponent using for his list? On a standard 4'x4' board with 12" deep x 24" wide deployment zones, you should have no problems getting off at least 2 spells and 2 rounds of arrows, regardless of activation card pulls.

 

 

I'm not sure how large the table was, maybe 4x6. I know it was larger than the rules say to use. We set up in the 12"x24" zones on each end. I was out of range in round one. In retrospect I probably should have been a lot more aggressive early in the game.

 

I held the unicorn back planning to use it to pick off the wounded. Problem was I didn't wound anything.

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I feel the tactics and build questions have been handled, so lets talk about using the rules to help. first I have found having archers focus before shooting makes the perform much better. Also with archers you want to pick your targets better. If the Focus actions doesn't drop the roll you need to below an 8 then you might want Rapid Shot instead because rolling two dice for 9 instead of one for 8 is better. Also look to cast spells that can bestow the Stun state which is almost better than Shaken.

 

@Shakandara First turn charges are possible just not likely or the best option to take.

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