TKD Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 I went out for black primer today. Sadly, Pep Boys was out of the "Varsity" brand black primer I use regularly. I really needed the primer to finish a set of minis, so I picked up some Krylon black primer instead - 1316 All Purpose Black Primer. Oh, boy, was that a mistake. I paid twice as much, and I used it on a few minis - some plastics and a couple of minis mounted on GW plastic bases. I had to shake the can up a lot - 15 minutes or more - before it would spray black out of it instead of just semi-clear. I sprayed my minis and went off to do other things. 30 minutes later I came to pick them up and see how they were....and they had melted. The two plastic minis I painted I had melted into the cardboard I was using to hold them. The two minis with the plastic bases needed to be pried off the carboard with a knife, since the bases had basically disintegrated. Is this a bad can, or should I have known this would happen? Right now, I'm thinking of returning the can and waiting until they get more of the brand I am used to....I know that one is safe for plastics. (Editing later - wrong name on my other primer - it is Varsity, not Vintage. I keep doing that...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 Wow, that sucks. I've never heard of that happening before. I have used Kyrlon white with no problem. Are you sure it was the paint or were the minis in an area of excessive heat maybe? Too much sun, furnace, etc. I know my 350 watt halogen lamp puts out a lot of heat. Enough to raise the temperature of my room by a few degrees in around 30 minutes. I have had tons of primer problems. I have used Armory (I swear they were better in the old days), Citadel, Krylon, weird generics, sandables, auto primers, and who knows what else. My current favorite is Floquil. I have never seen a primer that goes on so smooth. Miniature primers are supposed to be made thinner with a finer grain so as not to cover details. I know a lot of people out there think they get the same results with generic primers for less money, but I have to disagree. As I said before, I've had primer issues and I have experimented a lot. If you spray a mini with Floquil and compare it to one sprayed with Krylon, you will notice the difference in a side by side comparison. I really think its worth a few extra bucks. On of the reasons we thin our paints so much is to achieve smooth coats, shades and highlights. If you are applying thinned coats of paint to a grainy primer, you've just lost your benefit. If nothing else, give it a try. Do your own comparison. Worse case scenario, you've spent an extra $3 on a can of primer. I just switched to Floquil about 1 month ago. I only picked it up because I was experimenting. I was unsatisfied with the results of my Citadel and Krylon white, both of which have been delegated to priming terrain now. :D I've heard some real good reviews of Tamia (sp?) primer as well. I know some people have also used a few thin coats of Testor Dull Cote as a primer. I have tried this and did not care for it. The paint really didn't seem to adhere to the surface as it does on primer. The paint also appeared to rub off easier. But, I've only tried it once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKD Posted October 7, 2003 Author Share Posted October 7, 2003 Are you sure it was the paint or were the minis in an area of excessive heat maybe? I spray them in the sun, then I put them in well-ventilated shade. So if it was heat, I would have expected it to have happened before. I never had anything like this happen to any mini...the plastics look like I dunked them in the GW plastic glue. It really dissolved the bases and minis pretty badly. I think I'm going to stick to what I know - the black automotive primer that I buy has worked fine in the past. I figured it would be worth $4 for the Krylon, but it cost me $4, 2 bases, 2 miniatures I cannot replace cheaply, and time - I wanted to finish those minis for Friday's game (prime today, paint tomorrow and Thursday morning, seal Thursday night and matte coat Friday morning), but now.... I must have gotten a bad can. I'll return it...but I do not think I am getting Krlyon black primer again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaon Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 you sure it wasnt solvent based rather than water based? cause that would melt plastic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKD Posted October 7, 2003 Author Share Posted October 7, 2003 you sure it wasnt solvent based rather than water based? cause that would melt plastic Could be - but all it said on the can is "1316 All Purpose Primer Charcoal Black" and it looks just like the rest of the Krylon primer cans. I also made sure it said "plastics" on the list of surfaces. I already refunded it, so I am not sure what else it said. Does their all-purpose primer have acetone or something of the sort in it? I have used Krylon white primer before, and it looked about the same. But when I used that I was still using carboard bases for my minis, and I used it up before I tried it with plastics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comicbkguy Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 I've had a similar problem with Krylon white wrinkling the surface of plastic minis. I thought that the primer was just going on rough, but when I removed it it had actually melted texture into the surface of the piece. Nothing like what happened to you, but I may not have used as much primer either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hells_Clown Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 I've not had spray primer melt anything before, though I've not used it on plastic minis, but plastic bases. I used to use Krylon gray primer all the time, as well as white occasionally. I stopped when I kept getting grainy results no matter how long I shook the can or where or when I sprayed. Recently I tried using gesso. Gesso is a brush on primer used by painters to prime their canvases. I got an 8 ounce bottle at an art supply store for only a few dollars. I haven't had any problems with it. It thins down nicely, I can add paint so I have any color primer I want and if it's too thin, I can put on multiple coats. If it's too thick, wipe it away. Best of all, no noxious fumes! It can be used indoor, and not cause anyone to pass out. Nice bonus. Cleans us easily too. Give it a try, I think you'll like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Devalis Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Krylon is a bit of an odd duck, primer wise. On metal minis on plastic bases,I have never had a problem with the primer affecting the base. On the other hand, a friend of mine used it on plastic minis, and itr did leave a grainy finish. For plastics, I would suggest Testors flat black as it is intended for use on plastic minis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whizard Hlavaz Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 I'm stunned. I use Krylon religiously. Now, admittedly, since I switched to it, I've only been painting metal minis. That said, however, I glue my minis to all manner of plastic doohickeys to hold onto while painting. None of these plastic pieces (bottle tops, plastic inserts, scrap, etc.) has ever melted. Ever. I'll go home tonight and give a plastic mini a spritz to see what happens. I'll let you know. * * * Cade13 -- I'm curious about this Floquil. Where does one find it? In hobby shops or paint stores or online? I'd like to compare. You seem very pleased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Cade13 -- I'm curious about this Floquil. Where does one find it? In hobby shops or paint stores or online? I'd like to compare. You seem very pleased. You will most likely find it in Hobby/Train shops. To my knowledge, Floquil was one of the old school brands that was used a lot in model railroads. I believe Floquil was at some point bought out by Polly. So, your likely to find the Floquil primer at those model train hobby shops and maybe at any other shop that carries Polly paints. Floquil primer comes in the short bottle, similar to the Testors sprays. As I said earlier, I have indeed used just about every brand of primer I could get my hands on. I have never seen anything go on as smooth as Floquil. Next, I will try the Tamia fine model spray which has been recommended. Whenever I do, I will try to remember to put a review up here. Anyhow, I'm the type of person who will try anything once (well, almost :oo: ). I also get a kick out of trying new hobby supplies. I am perfectly willing to spend $5 just to experiment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digital M@ Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 I am not sure if you are aware, but you shouldn't be holding a lighter up to the spray can as you prime your figs. :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whizard Hlavaz Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 I am not sure if you are aware, but you shouldn't be holding a lighter up to the spray can as you prime your figs. :p :D :laugh: :D That's a good tip! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whizard Hlavaz Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 You will most likely find it in Hobby/Train shops. To my knowledge, Floquil was one of the old school brands that was used a lot in model railroads. I believe Floquil was at some point bought out by Polly. So, your likely to find the Floquil primer at those model train hobby shops and maybe at any other shop that carries Polly paints. Floquil primer comes in the short bottle, similar to the Testors sprays. Thanks a lot, C. I'll check it out! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enchantra Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Odd, I've used Krylon Grey Primer on just about everything, metal, composite, wood, and plastic with no problems. Did you check the label on the back to see if the black has a different formulation that the other stuff? Depending on what it was formulated for that might prove a problem. If it was formulated for all types of automotive plastic and metal then that might be the problem because it will have a slightly different formulation than for normal plastics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKD Posted October 8, 2003 Author Share Posted October 8, 2003 No, I did not check the back label. To be honest, I figured the All-Purpose Black was the same as the All-Purpose White. Krylon gets a *lot* of positive press here, so it never occured to me that there was a disclaimer of "don't spray GW plastics with it!" on those recommendations. :( I will stick with Varsity - $2 for 11 oz and it works fine on my plastic minis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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