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Vaitalla

Painting Competition Comments and Discussion

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But - wasn't the Best of Show voting open to all?

Yes but she's talking about the Sophie Trophies I believe. That is different. The best in show get cash prizes no trophies or medals (which was fine by me! :upside:

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Elephant in the room.. Heh, as I told one of the sculptors, I entered and expected to get nothing,b ecause I do not paint in the style they like. The contest was not my primary reason for attending, but I did garner two bronzes. It was those comments from the judges in the display room that ticked me off. There is nothing fair about prejudging anyone's work when the entries have no even closed. It is totally unprofessional to blab it in full volume where anyone could overhear. No wonder people were complaining about how it was run. Most people would not complain at all because they will be entering next year. I don't have that problem. I never had. If there is an injustice that I see, then it should be righted.

 

Yes, I was homeschooled and at 12 I was a docent at the Alabama Department of History, leading tours in three galleries, hosting monthly speaker events and was a full-time on a dig under the mentorship of two archaeologists. At 13 I won a grant from the Endowment for the Humanities to conduct and publish my own research. At 14 I wrote a chapter for the archaeologists to be included in the digs final publications and at 15 I was asked by a third archaeologist to write a chapter that would be included in another historical digs final publication. At 12 I was not just a helper for running events, I was doing my own at that age. They ranged from small groups of a hundred to several thousand for Tae Kwon Do tournaments. Just like time doesn't equal quality, age doesn't give experience. :)

 

Holy Cow! And all I've done so far is beat up Bruce Wayne, hair-lipped the Pope, and out-funkied Shaft....solid!

 

Right here is where I could start my liberal tirade of Texas Education (VIVA JEFFERSON!!!!) but that's a different thread.

 

"Just like time doesn't equal quality, age doesn't give experience." - It took Michaelangello almost 5 years to paint a ceiling. I painted mine in a day. I'll wager his looks much better and he didn't have FrogTape.

 

Age doesn't give us tact, in some cases, either. ;)

 

I understand your objection to comments made before enrties were closed. I propose a compromise that judges be excluded from viewing until said entry period closes and official judging begins. Fair?

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hmmm how are you going to police that though chip if let's say the spouse of a judge is entering the competition? the judge would see it before hand would he not? (playing devil's advocate)

 

Overhearing comments and assuming people are judges--that's not solid proof that they are. If Maya has names she should PM them to Anne and continue the discussion of this with her. It is a serious issue IF the people talking in the room were judges and this happened. Then it can be dealt with on Reaper's end.

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Anne already knows. And for anyone thinking its the "'Elephant in the room" I also put it on my survey which I turned in Saturday before the awards were ever announced. I couldn't get anyone alone and saying "Hey you have a major judging problem!!!" in the front hall of a crowded convention would not have done Reaper any favors.

 

And style, I answered those questions and directed to examples in an earlier post.

 

The point here is... prejudging is not fair. NO ONE, no matter how good, can win a contest where you have prejudging bias. This is assuming, of course, the judges even bother to look at your miniature after they have decided on the winners. If you come in near the end of the deadline, well sucks to be you. No matter how good, you're not winning!

 

You don't have to identify a contract painter. The judges should be independent and not able to tell who painted what. If you are friendly or look at a lot of miniatures, you know who painted what and personal opinions come into play with the best of people. It is impossible to be fully impartial if you know a particular person painted a particular miniature. What I see as a major problem with staff painters is... there were two Sophies on Reapers front page with paint jobs done for Reaper. These were in the contest and surprise...got trophies. Whether this was because the paint job was good or the judges felt reaper needed to see them get an award is moot. They shouldn't have been there. Reaper commissioned them, they shouldn't have been there.

 

 

For the comment that you'd have less people enter if anyone with a Reaper affiliation was not allowed to enter, I believe is incorrect. You will have more because the problems with unfairness or perceived unfairness will not be there. Why do you think there is a law that says, people can not enter contests if they or someone in their family works for the company that sponsoring the contest? Read the fine print of any corporation run contest, such as Coke, Publishers Clearing House, HGTV, and so on. This came out of the rigged game shows of the 50s. No matter how good the system, this will still happen, thus the law.

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maya how would you define what an affiliation with Reaper is? (I am serious with this question. If you were in Anne's shoes how would you define this)

 

someone who has painted at least one mini for them?

Someone who lives in the general area as Reaper and frequents paint club?

someone who has a spouse, friend, roommate, sibling, child, colleague working for Reaper or ever having worked for Reaper in the past?

 

As far as specific works being commissioned by Reaper being barred--I will give you that. Or pieces that have won in other competitions such as some of the Demon entries present last year that also won at Reaper Con. I don't think that should happen.

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hmmm how are you going to police that though chip if let's say the spouse of a judge is entering the competition? the judge would see it before hand would he not? (playing devil's advocate)

 

Overhearing comments and assuming people are judges--that's not solid proof that they are. If Maya has names she should PM them to Anne and continue the discussion of this with her. It is a serious issue IF the people talking in the room were judges and this happened. Then it can be dealt with on Reaper's end.

 

 

Wow...ok. What are the odds, especially with as small a place and attendance as Reaper.. you get two people pretending to be judges, talking about their choices to award awards to, then talking with other volunteers, at the table, in the room about the best time to close it down for the next group to judge... don't you think the other volunteers in the room would have immediately stopped that. They were, after all, less than three feet away. Solid proof is if you show me a copy of your archaeology degree. You say you have one, but I have no solid proof that you do. I can show you mine and that would be solid proof. The point you are saying here is reliability. You are implying that I am not reliable, therefore you are implying that I am not being honest. I have no reason to say something so unsavory and I truly wish I had not overheard the conversation. By overhearing it, I will be forever thinking of this with any contest associated with Reaper.

 

How many judges were there at Reapercon? Anne knows exactly who was there and exactly who was judging the Trophies.

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maya how would you define what an affiliation with Reaper is? (I am serious with this question. If you were in Anne's shoes how would you define this)

 

someone who has painted at least one mini for them?

Someone who lives in the general area as Reaper and frequents paint club?

someone who has a spouse, friend, roommate, sibling, child, colleague working for Reaper or ever having worked for Reaper in the past?

 

As far as specific works being commissioned by Reaper being barred--I will give you that. Or pieces that have won in other competitions such as some of the Demon entries present last year that also won at Reaper Con. I don't think that should happen.

 

 

See above. Already answered. :)

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Maya the point I was trying to make is that if you are concerned about this being a problem then you need to address it with Anne so she can handle it.

 

I myself have no way of knowing you are correct or incorrect. You may have misunderstood something or misheard something. Then again you could have heard exactly what you say you did. The best way to handle it is to give the names of the individuals in question to Reaper and they can deal with it from there.

 

Just because 2 people acted unprofessionally you are going to damn the entire competition?

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maya how would you define what an affiliation with Reaper is? (I am serious with this question. If you were in Anne's shoes how would you define this)

 

someone who has painted at least one mini for them?

Someone who lives in the general area as Reaper and frequents paint club?

someone who has a spouse, friend, roommate, sibling, child, colleague working for Reaper or ever having worked for Reaper in the past?

 

As far as specific works being commissioned by Reaper being barred--I will give you that. Or pieces that have won in other competitions such as some of the Demon entries present last year that also won at Reaper Con. I don't think that should happen.

 

 

See above. Already answered. :)

 

 

So just because I live with Reaper Darryl I shouldn't be allowed to compete in their competition? I'm posing this question to make sure I understand your answer. You said see above, I am guessing you mean my list, n'est pas?

 

Or if one of my co-workers I don't know very well has painted for Reaper ONCE I should all of a sudden be barred from entering a Reaper Competition?

 

And what if someone in my neighborhood wants to enter a Reaper competition? Just because I live where I do and have painted a mini for Reaper my neighbor shouldn't be allowed to enter?

 

Do you not see how ridiculous that is?

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For the comment that you'd have less people enter if anyone with a Reaper affiliation was not allowed to enter, I believe is incorrect. You will have more because the problems with unfairness or perceived unfairness will not be there. Why do you think there is a law that says, people can not enter contests if they or someone in their family works for the company that sponsoring the contest? Read the fine print of any corporation run contest, such as Coke, Publishers Clearing House, HGTV, and so on. This came out of the rigged game shows of the 50s. No matter how good the system, this will still happen, thus the law.

I'm well aware of this - I grew up with a father in advertising and a mother in public relations, and there were many, many contests I was not allowed to enter because of their agency's affiliation with the corporations sponsoring said contest.

 

However, with Reaper we have a slightly different situation - first of all, this is a skill based competition, not a random drawing, as most of the large corporation ones are. Secondly, the miniatures hobby is still pretty small compared many other hobbies. Finally, just what is the definition of an affiliation with Reaper? As Meg asked, if you don't draw a line, with as small as our hobby is, you quickly eliminate a lot of people - FREX, if you eliminate anyone who has painted at least one miniature for Reaper, thanks to their little promotion in the 90s, about half the people I game with are eliminated, because they painted up a mini in exchange for three free ones - regardless of the fact that most of those probably ended up being stripped and melted back down, they got compensation for their work.

 

I understand your concerns, I really do - but you seem to be proposing an outright ban, instead of offering up suggestions of other ways to deal with the problem.

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I understand your concerns, I really do - but you seem to be proposing an outright ban, instead of offering up suggestions of other ways to deal with the problem.

 

Yerp

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Starting to go in circles here. Might have to agree to disagree.

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Maya, if you don't like the system then don't participate. That simple.

 

Go ahead and send that to everyone who complained about the contest, then lets see how low the bottom line of sales works for Reaper. Really, you should be very careful, you are not a Reaper employee and there are VERY valid complaints out there for a reason. If you feel the need to defend your wins, no one has said anything or gives a crap. But that is how you are coming across. One of the things I found very irritating at the con was the manner in which your friends were bugging everyone who would listen about how much you *needed* to win to boost your ego AND your Ebay sales. This after overhearing the judges was two of the things that did make me wish I hadn't come since it left me with a bad taste in my mouth about Reapercon. Except for the business I needed to attend to, the painting contest was an afterthought for me, but doesn't excuse the unprofessional-ism.

 

 

 

Just because 2 people acted unprofessionally you are going to damn the entire competition?

 

Yep, because these two people were JUDGES and it ruined the entire competition by making it grossly unfair as well as unprofessional. Think on that for a bit. If they weren't judges I would have ignored it and moved on. Would you take your car into a garage to be fixed, find out a couple of the people acted unprofessionally and replaced good parts with used parts. You had heard people complain about the garage and found out that these people did the majority of repair after your car broke down. The quality of work coming out of there was just like your car. Would you damn the entire garage and not go back? Sensible people would.

 

I'm not going to answer anymore of your posts Meg. It's obvious you can't grasp what I am saying and I'm pretty much talking to air. I'm wasting bandwidth responding to stuff I already answered.

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Starting to go in circles here. Might have to agree to disagree.

 

 

Ditto, see above post made while you posted this <G>

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I understand your concerns, I really do - but you seem to be proposing an outright ban, instead of offering up suggestions of other ways to deal with the problem.

 

Actually I proposed an "only for" category way back in my first posts so they could still compete, but fairly.

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