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Painting Competition Comments and Discussion

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Maya I'm sorry you feel the way you do.

 

I didn't know anyone was going around the con and saying I needed the win. I never heard that myself and I certainly didn't tell them to do it. If they did so it was of their own volition.

 

I am not saying that people shouldn't complain or suggest improvements. It seems that you are quick to say what you didn't like without practical fixes. That's why I've been responding with questions and trying to get clarification.

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Ok, clocked out of Codemonkey mode so I can put on my Suburb-class painter hat (Hi Bosses!).

 

Valloa, I'm almost 100% certain you heard me talking in the contest room. On Friday afternoon, around 5-ish I think, I took a spin around the room to see what had been entered since I hadn't been in there all day; I know it was late in the day because Derek took his sweet time finishing his diorama. In the room was Mengu Gungor, another painter, and Vickie Saunders, who was manning the room.

 

I spent about five minutes or so looking over all the entries, and at one point, Mengu asked me something along the lines of, "So, John, which minis are you rooting for," or "So, John, which minis would you vote for." I named off three entries pretty quickly; I hadn't looked at all of what was in the room, but I knew what to my eye looked like the best entries. The reason why I mentioned Derek above was not only to place the time, but also because I had "picked" him as taking the show according to what was already in the room. Granted, I hadn't looked everything over yet, but I spend a lot of time on CMON, eBay, and around Reaper looking at figures, both to push myself and to break things down into component groups (ask poor KatieG what two hours of me dismantling style is like ::D:). I think I also said I liked Doug Cohen's left-most piece (it was the one with five horses/riders, I believe), and I'm not 100% on the third; I want to say it was the trench warfare one, but I could've been wrong. If I remember right, I also commented on Fieldarchy's piece, mainly because I do a completely different style of NMM than her. Afterwards, I think Mengu agreed with me on how Derek had a pretty darned kick-arse piece, and then said which ones he liked.

 

Afterwards I did talk with Vickie about times to close, since my "job" this Con was to check in with her, Anne, Rhonda, and Alison when they were manning stations periodically just to be sure they didn't need to use the bathroom or stretch their legs or whatnot. Since the painters and sculptors tend to eat together at the Cons for dinner (logistics of feeding a lot of hungry artists have been hammered out since the early Cons) knowing when the room was going to close was important.

 

So, since Derek didn't enter till a bit past five o'clock I can place myself and Mengu having a conversation about the minis we think were going to win in-between 5:05pm-6pm. Neither of us were judges for the trophies, and, in fact, the judges for the trophies weren't picked until Saturday; Anne wrangled Jennifer Haley and Angela Imrie to do the judging for the Sophies. If you heard people talking about it Saturday afternoon before it closed then I'm pretty sure it wasn't me saying it (I talk really fast and mumble a bit if it helps to identify my voice). If you heard two males talking on Friday that wasn't me (hopefully me calling Derek Schubert as winning big and Doug Cohen having a great piece will show/not show it was me) then they weren't the judges voting on the Sophies anyway. If it was two female voices on Saturday then, possibly, yes.

 

Lemme know if I was right about the when/where/what ::D:.

 

Quick edit: Mengu also has a very slight accent if that helps you place the voices as well (I believe he's originally from Turkey).

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Ok, clocked out of Codemonkey mode so I can put on my Suburb-class painter hat (Hi Bosses!).

 

Valloa, I'm almost 100% certain you heard me talking in the contest room. On Friday afternoon, around 5-ish I think, I took a spin around the room to see what had been entered since I hadn't been in there all day; I know it was late in the day because Derek took his sweet time finishing his diorama. In the room was Mengu Gungor, another painter, and Vickie Saunders, who was manning the room.

 

I spent about five minutes or so looking over all the entries, and at one point, Mengu asked me something along the lines of, "So, John, which minis are you rooting for," or "So, John, which minis would you vote for." I named off three entries pretty quickly; I hadn't looked at all of what was in the room, but I knew what to my eye looked like the best entries. The reason why I mentioned Derek above was not only to place the time, but also because I had "picked" him as taking the show according to what was already in the room. Granted, I hadn't looked everything over yet, but I spend a lot of time on CMON, eBay, and around Reaper looking at figures, both to push myself and to break things down into component groups (ask poor KatieG what two hours of me dismantling style is like ::D:). I think I also said I liked Doug Cohen's left-most piece (it was the one with five horses/riders, I believe), and I'm not 100% on the third; I want to say it was the trench warfare one, but I could've been wrong. If I remember right, I also commented on Fieldarchy's piece, mainly because I do a completely different style of NMM than her. Afterwards, I think Mengu agreed with me on how Derek had a pretty darned kick-arse piece, and then said which ones he liked.

 

Afterwards I did talk with Vickie about times to close, since my "job" this Con was to check in with her, Anne, Rhonda, and Alison when they were manning stations periodically just to be sure they didn't need to use the bathroom or stretch their legs or whatnot. Since the painters and sculptors tend to eat together at the Cons for dinner (logistics of feeding a lot of hungry artists have been hammered out since the early Cons) knowing when the room was going to close was important.

 

So, since Derek didn't enter till a bit past five o'clock I can place myself and Mengu having a conversation about the minis we think were going to win in-between 5:05pm-6pm. Neither of us were judges for the trophies, and, in fact, the judges for the trophies weren't picked until Saturday; Anne wrangled Jennifer Haley and Angela Imrie to do the judging for the Sophies. If you heard people talking about it Saturday afternoon before it closed then I'm pretty sure it wasn't me saying it (I talk really fast and mumble a bit if it helps to identify my voice). If you heard two males talking on Friday that wasn't me (hopefully me calling Derek Schubert as winning big and Doug Cohen having a great piece will show/not show it was me) then they weren't the judges voting on the Sophies anyway. If it was two female voices on Saturday then, possibly, yes.

 

Lemme know if I was right about the when/where/what ::D:.

 

Quick edit: Mengu also has a very slight accent if that helps you place the voices as well (I believe he's originally from Turkey).

 

 

No, 100% sure it wasn't you. It was Saturday, well before the entries they were still allowing to come in, were closed. And since you aren't female, not you. So nope 300%it was not you. :) Believe me, this conversation couldn't be mistaken with anyone "rooting" for anyone. It was pretty specific in what it was. Plus I wasn't at the Con at that time on Friday. I was trying not to die in a coughing fit in the hotel room. So absolutely not a chance it was you.

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I've always felt the true value of conventions and contests are to meet people with similar interests and ideals. Granted, I don't tend to be very successful at this particular philosophy, but then I have a personality that's difficult for some to tolerate. Regardless, the contests and conventions I remember are not the ones where I've won a trophy, certificate, or a little swag. The one's I remember are where I met someone new and interesting, bought a beer for someone I admire, had a great conversation with someone I find intriguing, or simply got to sling a little paint with folks I see once per year.

 

The miniatures I enter in contests are nothing more than conversation pieces to me---that little "what's-it" that may provide the initial little spark for a friendship (as well as an excuse to attend the convention in the first place). I certainly put time and effort into my paint, but it's because I absolutely love the process--not because I'm seeking the big "W". Hell, if I win something, it's nothing more than a little pat on the back affirming that I've wasted tons of money and time on pewter.

 

Not to take away from the hours it takes to achieve some degree of mastery at this hobby, as I've spent my time in the chair, too---but it would be nice if more of us would be a little more light-hearted about painting our pewter and just try to enjoy the experiences this hobby brings.

 

Cheers,

Kev

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Actually I proposed an "only for" category way back in my first posts so they could still compete, but fairly.

so I went back through your posts to see where I missed this, and ran across something else I missed that intrigues me far more in your initial post in this thread:

 

It's a no brainer why folks don't think this is fair. Compounded by the "open system" which with the above taken into effect, does come off as a way to "feel better" about awarding the trophies while throwing others a bone. No one want's to play if they have no shot at winning anything but a token prize, no matter how good. That is what people are complaining about there.

 

 

I'm surprised to learn that people would feel the open system is merely throwing a bone to non-trophy winners. Ok, I guess in a certain way it could be seen as that, but it never came across that way to me, nor to others with whom I've talked about it.

 

Would you feel better about having both competitions if an entrant had to declare they were going for a Sophie, or participating in the Open system, but not both?

 

 

Also, I'm still confused by your comments about style. I spent considerable time browsing your site earlier, and I don't see significant differences between your work and that of others around here, at least not in terms of what I would define as style, and yet you say that you didn't expect to win because of your style.

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it would be nice if more of us would be a little more light-hearted about painting our pewter and just try to enjoy the experiences this hobby brings.

 

Cheers,

Kev

 

Definitely! I feel this way too.

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Valloa, if it was Saturday then, the judges didn't _know_ they were judging till _after_ all the entries were in. They were a last-minute choice. So, at the time you heard two people talking about the judging for Sophies, they weren't judges. I'd feel really weird if nobody is allowed to comment about the models at all until after the contest, but that would be the only way to ensure misunderstandings like you heard didn't happen.

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Hi Rodnik/Kevin! *waves* You hit the nail right square on the head. Thanks for putting it better than I could've.

 

Speaking as a person who has miles to go before even winning a certificate in the contest, but who has entered just the same, I like the way it's done now. I don't see the new format as "lowering the bar" in any way. It just means that more than one deserving person can be rewarded. Think of it as "widening the bar".

 

As for all this complaining going on, I just must've been at the wrong ReaperCon because I missed it.

 

I have a crazy fun new idea for next year though. To possibly get more entries (if this has been a problem), how about a random drawing among all participants to win a DYOP ..Design Your Own Paint?! The prize is that you get to create and name a special limited run colour of RMS or Propaint, of which you get a good supply as well as the bragging rights that would come with winning.

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Spike - if you won that would you pick Studly Ork Green? :->

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My job has kept me out of the painting circle for a couple of years how, but I'm slowly getting my time back. My intention is to hit Texas the very next opportunity.

 

I don't have a contest idea, but I am going to bring a few minis for the judges, then I'm going to see how many people can tolerate me long enough to share a pitcher or three.

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Valloa, if it was Saturday then, the judges didn't _know_ they were judging till _after_ all the entries were in. They were a last-minute choice. So, at the time you heard two people talking about the judging for Sophies, they weren't judges. I'd feel really weird if nobody is allowed to comment about the models at all until after the contest, but that would be the only way to ensure misunderstandings like you heard didn't happen.

 

 

I was just about to ask about the Saturday judging, as it was my understanding that everything was judged Friday after the 6:00 deadline and that Saturday "as space allows" entries were judged by a different set of judges. Was a specific deadline ever even announced for Saturday entrants?

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Well i will jump in

 

Last year I was upset by the change but I entered and won a silver.

The year before I won a Sophie trophy with my warlord squad when it was just a 3 person win thing for each category.

I mainly was upset because I felt it undermined the Sophie i won and worked very hard for.

 

However, as I said I won a silver medal.

Initially I was upset because who doesn't want to win gold right? but then I looked at the entries that won each and felt a bit better. Also the open system Reaper uses is similar to some of the more well known serious PAINTING cons. The ones to me that really matter. Where the pro painters go to compete. Makes on feel pretty good realizing that my painting is on par with some of the large cons entries that receive recognition.

 

This year I won a gold metal. I worked my tail off for it and I was motivated last year after the con to go and get my gold this year. Turns out I was even considered for the Sophies. Cool huh? That means my work is getting to the better end of things. I like that my work gets recognized as well as Angela, or Derek's or Lazlo's.

 

MAybe I'll even sweep up a Sophie next year?

 

As a result of the competition change the entries have increased 10 fold, which is great for Reaper and great for making the Reaper paint contest have more notoriety. Also it is great for we painters to SEE the different things out there. I love to see all the styles and the things people do and make. I only go to one con a year, it is all I can afford, and it is Reapercon, and to be able to see some of the things that are at other shows now right at Reapercon is a treat, and it also shows me how far I have to go with some things.

 

I am not local, and I am one of the better painters in my area, but I am not a Reaper affiliate or a Colorado painter or a Chicago painter, I run the paint group at my hobby store. I am fortunate enough to have some gold daemon winners in my area, but I don't get paint club with Anne, and I still did well. I think it is a fair competition, and I think there is a real desire esp. by Anne to have the pieces judged by merit not by favoritism.

 

 

Things that could be improved:

 

Have the entries be assigned a number or title, no names allowed.

 

Yes you can still pick a pro's style but I think it would add to the compitition;

Then you don't get as badly the "I like/ dislike _________ so I'm voting/not voting for them"

It allows the piece to be seen through a cleaner filter. You still will get the fanboy thing but not as badly.

 

I am on the fence about limiting trophies...

I like to see all the work.

I want the Sophies to keep their desirability, and limiting might be counter productive to that.

 

I don't know that it is fair for a Reaper commission to win a Sophie, here's why,

Reaper is only going to commission the best they can to get a figure painted up for adverts, so it is a no brainer that those would be the Sophie trophy winners. It also stands to reason that most of the folks who paint for Reaper have won Sophies in years past before the competition was changed and after, else they wouldn't be painting for Reaper. So do they need another... there is the crux of the problem for me.

 

I want to see their work and what they can come up with, but we already know they are good, but it sure would be sweet to sweep a Sophie from ( no offense here to anyone mentioned after) Derek or Lazlo, or Alli or Noel or Angela or ETC.. How much sweeter is my Sophie then, than to have won it because they are not in the competition..

 

So maybe the solution is no Reaper commissions can win Sophies but they are eligible for whatever else, and the "Pro painters" can still enter Reaper minis and win or not as the whole painting field merits.

 

I think I would like that. And anonymous entries.

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WOW! You came away with a totally different feeling than I did.

 

I have to disagree, I want the pros and staff to stay in. Because when I win a Sophie, I don't want the "comments overheard at reaperCon" to read, "Well, yeah, Chip won a Sophie...because Derek couldn't enter one."

 

To be the best...you gotta beat the best. And I can bet you the people that won Sophies and other awards didn't enter speed paints. I put about 12 hours into mine, and others have put far more than that in. Maybe that would be another category of speed paints, but I figure you'd have to do that there at the Con, otherwise someone could enter a mini with 30 hours of work on it and call it a speed paint.

PS: I didn't understand your comment about not painting in the same style.

 

PPS: Oh, and your comment of the judges showing preference to Paint Club...thanks, now I'm back to not believing in my skill. I've attended one PClub. Maybe that's why I rated bronze. (said in jest) GAW!!!!!!

 

I’m going to go ahead and piggy back off of Chip’s comments. Sounds like we have some of the same thoughts. I just got home from work and am only on page 2 of the discussion but I want to give my input.

 

This was my first year at ReaperCon and my experience was incredible. It was also the first competition I’ve ever entered and was thrilled to come away with two bronze medals. I realize that the Open system isn’t for everyone, but instead of being left to wonder why I didn’t place 1st, 2nd, or 3rd; I now know where I place and know to shoot higher. Like Chip, I want to see the “pro” painters stay in the competition. It gives me something to work towards. I want to know that when I get that Sophie or Best of Show…I beat out some of the best.

 

I work full time at an office and literally only got serious about my painting in April when I decided to attend ReaperCon. I buckled down by painting in the evenings after work, and til 3:00 am on the weekends and that got me two Bronze’s. I very much look forward to next year when I’ve had a whole year to get ready. Look out “pros”…I’m coming for you.

 

One other thing, I was never made to feel like the pro’s are treated differently because I didn’t win a trophy. I don’t fool myself into thinking I’m at their level (yet), I don’t deserve a trophy right now. But, the “pro’s” I spoke to at the convention were down to earth and more than willing to sit and talk with me about my entries and give their honest advice. I really appreciated the time they spent with me and my painting has been made better because of it.

 

Everyone will have their opinion and are entitled to it, so I can only speak for myself when I say…I enjoyed ReaperCon, appreciated the input from the artists, and hope that things don’t change too much next year.

 

~Stephanie Sasaki

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