Agitators and problem paints

[kimbers]

I have just a few questions, long winded as they are. I'm very new to the hobby and, naturally, started on the cheaper or readily available end of the scale when buying my first supplies.

 

Firstly - appropriate agitators for paints. I have quite a few white metal beads laying about. They should be nickel and lead free, as far as I'm aware. I did a saltwater test on each type to see if they developed any rust and after about 10 days, they are perfectly fine. Shall I add them to my bottles, or is there any other chemical reaction which may occur which would damage my paints? I don't want my lack of chemical knowledge to wreck the decent ones I have!

 

I'm hoping that the paints that seem a bit sub-par (compared to the others in the same line) will benefit. They were about 60% off, so its possible they have been sitting at the back of a shop somewhere settling out for years. Might have to give them a good stir with a skewer or something to see if that helps too. The ones that ARE good are quite lovely and a joy to use. Its the Australian-made Derivan Mini's range, in case you were wondering, so if anyone has any experience with them, it would be wonderful to hear what you think. If you know nothing of Derivan, they are a widely available brand (in Australia at least) and produce a lot of quality artist paints and such. The reviews I have found of the mini's are a mixed bag though. Some love them, some hate them, some are neutral.

 

I also have a small amount of GW paints. I was recommended the mechrite red citadel foundation which is absolutely wonderful, in my inexperienced opinion anyway. Just had to say. However, I have the Goblin Green GW, and when I open the pot, it has yellow swirls in it. I shook it, looked inside, shook it again, looked again, then shook it until my arm was about ready to drop off. Still has yellow streaks in it. Anyone know what is with that? Bad batch? Just bad overall?

 

Please forgive me if I've left out any important details or my typing is terrible. Its late and I'm a little bleary-eyed.

[Hot Lead]

Firstly - appropriate agitators for paints. I have quite a few white metal beads laying about. They should be nickel and lead free, as far as I'm aware. I did a saltwater test on each type to see if they developed any rust and after about 10 days, they are perfectly fine. Shall I add them to my bottles, or is there any other chemical reaction which may occur which would damage my paints? I don't want my lack of chemical knowledge to wreck the decent ones I have!

 

I used to use pewter bits and fishing lures until some reacted badly to some of my Vallejo paints... Unless it's gold (or platinum?), most metal will oxidize to a certain extent, and white metal is typically (IIRC) tin, bismuth, antimony and lead. Any of these can leech into the paints or react.

 

I switched to hematite beads in my Vallejos, though you could also use glass marbles. Hematite is already oxidized iron, so there's no worry of contamination. Glass is probably just as safe.

 

I also have a small amount of GW paints. I was recommended the mechrite red citadel foundation which is absolutely wonderful, in my inexperienced opinion anyway. Just had to say. However, I have the Goblin Green GW, and when I open the pot, it has yellow swirls in it. I shook it, looked inside, shook it again, looked again, then shook it until my arm was about ready to drop off. Still has yellow streaks in it. Anyone know what is with that? Bad batch? Just bad overall?

 

I've heard good things about the foundation paints and keep meaning to pick some up! On the Goblin Green I'm not a paint chemist but it does sound like some separation of the paint pigment or dye has occurred from the acrylic binder. It may be a loss.

 

However, you might try an electric mixer. Before I switched to the dropper style paints, I used to use a mixer for the bottle paints: Badger Paint Mixer

 

It really works well to reconstitute separate paints, etc. You could pick one up and try it - even if the Goblin Green is a goner, I'll bet it would help revive your Dervians which are still off. Paints tend to settle and the binder and/or pigments can thicken over time. The mixer can help thin them back out a little (it's not a miracle-worker though. Sometimes the paint is just too far gone!)

 

One caveat though, always cup your hand around the bottle as you withdraw the mixer! Sometimes one forgets to turn it off first, and paint can shoot all over. Ask me how I know...

 

Take care,

Laszlo

[Wren]

Maybe that's how Jackson Pollack got started...

[kimbers]

Hematite is already oxidized iron, so there's no worry of contamination.

 

I did forget to mention something. I do use some beads as agitators already. Hematite beads to be exact :P I knew enough about them to know they would be safe to use. Nice to know I wasn't mistaken! I've got plenty left, so I'll just keep using those.

 

As for the paint mixer, If I can find one lying around my father's shed that is small enough. He's mixed plenty of paints in his time, but they would be auto and house paint and imagine it would probably need a good clean if it was the right size anyway. Otherwise, a trip to the local hardware store (with my fingers crossed) may be in order again. Oh hardware store, how I love thee! I am likely to be someone who finds out first hand what taking a switched on paint mixer out of a bottle of paint will do. I get a little absent minded when I'm doing things that don't require much brain power and my mind tends to wander off and not pay attention to what I'm actually doing.

 

Thanks for the help Laszlo. I also ordered the Hot Lead DVD last night and am already eagerly awaiting its arrival, although its going to take me quite some time to get through as my weekends have decided to get busy all of a sudden.

 

and lol @ Wren. Took me a second or two, but I got it! I keep chuckling to myself at the mental image.

[orcsoul]

Laszlo, on the topic of mixers... are you familiar with any mixers that operate as a drill attachment that'll work for the small paint bottles like vallejo and rms use?

 

Close to the badger one you linked, but just the shaft basically. The only ones I've managed to find so far are for the larger paint jars.

[fieldarchy]

As far as swirls in GW paints go thats really normal for something that's been sitting for a long time. If they are really thick also add a little bit of water to the paint to reconstitute it. I've done this with my paint, I use only GW paints for my colors and Reaper blacks and whites, and never had any problems.

 

I don't add agitators to my paint either. I just shake really hard and really well. Never had an issue.

[kimbers]

Well, I made up a little paint agitator, as pictured below. Actually, dad bent the wire, I'm a bit of a weakling. The bit at the end is a shoddily made drill piece made from a small chunk of sculpey for my little electric drill. I could have done better on the bit but it was pretty decent for a quick and dirty first attempt. Of course it ended up being a lot easier to use by hand. It did improve my bad derivans a couple of degrees, but I think those specific ones are a loss. I painted up a small board of swatches earlier so I should be able to tell which ones aren't that great before I use them. The good ones do dry to a really nice matte so I'm keen to stick with the good bottles.

 

That stupid GW Goblin Green just refuses to have those swirls mixed in. I added a few drops of distilled water, but to no avail. It almost appears as if something else sneaked into the pot. Although if I use it carefully by removing the paint from the pot before I use it and trying to avoid those yellow bits it will probably still be fine to use. The consistency and colour of the actual green seems fine inside the pot. I'll have to give it a test run at some point.

 

@ fieldarchy re: the agitators. Yeah, it doesn't seem necessary for the GW's, but my derivans are thick and do separate ever so slightly and are quite large (36ml) bottles. An agitator just seems to make it a little easier. Except for one that appears to be quite thin out of the bottle, they all require a good shake and thinning down before use.

[fieldarchy]

My scorched brown does the same thing as your goblin green. The swirls don't seem to affect the paint any to be honest. I even used it on my show pieces recently--no adverse affects.

 

I can't speak to other paints for agitators only the GW's which seem to be fine without. For a 36 ml bottle a glass marble might be the best bet.

[Hot Lead]

Maybe that's how Jackson Pollack got started...

 

Yeah, except he thinned his paints with alcohol...

 

Later,

Laszlo

[Hot Lead]

I did forget to mention something. I do use some beads as agitators already. Hematite beads to be exact :P I knew enough about them to know they would be safe to use. Nice to know I wasn't mistaken! I've got plenty left, so I'll just keep using those.

 

Yup! I've been around art supplies long enough to know toxicity is an issue, whether people toss pewter in paint pots or lick their brushes it's better to be safe than sorry!

 

 

As for the paint mixer, If I can find one lying around my father's shed that is small enough. He's mixed plenty of paints in his time, but they would be auto and house paint and imagine it would probably need a good clean if it was the right size anyway. Otherwise, a trip to the local hardware store (with my fingers crossed) may be in order again. Oh hardware store, how I love thee! I am likely to be someone who finds out first hand what taking a switched on paint mixer out of a bottle of paint will do. I get a little absent minded when I'm doing things that don't require much brain power and my mind tends to wander off and not pay attention to what I'm actually doing.

 

Squirrel!

 

Oh wait. Paint mixers, that's right... Robart makes one for hobby paints, but it's pricey:

 

 

 

The AC one works better than the battery-operated one (more power.) I've heard of people strapping paints to electric sanders, etc. with rubber bands. (Like electric carvers.) Some even make their own out of motors and styrene: http://www.io.com/~b...arkIIMixer.html

 

Thanks for the help Laszlo. I also ordered the Hot Lead DVD last night and am already eagerly awaiting its arrival, although its going to take me quite some time to get through as my weekends have decided to get busy all of a sudden.

 

You're welcome! Thanks for getting the DVDs. I hope you enjoy them!

 

Take care,

Laszlo

[Qwyksilver]

For $50 I got a used Vortex Lab mixer off eBay. Even came with some of the foam trays, which perfectly fit 4 bottles. Brought life back to some of my oldest Reaper MSP's that I thought I was going to have to discard.

[Kang]

...I've heard of people strapping paints to electric sanders, etc. with rubber bands. (Like electric carvers.)...

I cringed when I read the part of that article where he suggests using "the standard two BB’s" for agitators. I can't count the number of times I've read warnings about why you shouldn't use BB's since they will (probably) rust and discolour your paints. For the record, when I feel the need to add agitators to my paints, I use glass beads that are small enough to fit through the neck of a dropper bottle, since I feel fairly certain they aren't going to rust.

 

But for the rest of it, for me there is no point in buying one of those fancy and expensive hobby paint shakers, or in building one of those overly elaborate ones, because I can personally vouch for the power tool option - As often as once every couple of months, I will give all my dropper bottles a really good shake by strapping them one by one to the blade of a jigsaw, then powering it on for about 30 seconds. Maybe it's unnecessary, but I tend to rotate the angle of the blade around while it is shaking, just to make sure the agitator(s) are pounding away at the thickened paint all around the edges of the bottom of the bottle. By the time that 30 seconds is done, you better believe those little pewter skulls and glass beads are rattling around like nobody's business.

 

I suppose I should consider buying an extra blade and rigging up some sort of paint-bottle holder that could be attached to it permanently so I could shake up any brand I want, maybe even do more than one bottle at a time, without having to fiddle with the zip-ties I'm currently using to secure the paint to the blade. I've been able to reuse the same zip-tie for the last couple of times I shook all my (2-3 dozen) droppers of RMS paint though, so it's not so bad as-is. Vallejo droppers are different enough in shape that they have each required a new zip-tie, but I only have a couple of Vallejo's so no biggie there - I still have a big bag of zip's left over from the last time we moved.

 

Kang