Flying ranged attacks and spells?

[Feanor]

Savage north brings us the new ability "spray" and both Deathsleet and Aashaleek have it and flyer. Does anyone have a problem with them flying and blasting away with spray? On that same note does flying have any affect on spells such as Argyian's (sticking with the dragon theme) lightning bolt?

thanks for any input

cheers

[Stubbdog]

In both books, it is said that a model must land to do a ranged attack. So, the dragons could not use it while flying.

 

Spells can be used while flying, but all models that can fly and cast were given very restricted casting points.

[Feanor]

thanks stubbdog I missed that somehow.

[jdripley]

I believe that rule is either in the Flier SA or in the rules on shooting. I completely missed it too and nearly flipped my lid when I saw that those models you mentioned were surviving beta edition after beta edition. Especially given the very strong feeling previously about how horribly broken a ranged flier is in the game and how it just does bad, bad things for the game I was surprised to see that you could do that with some models in Savage North. Until, of course, it was pointed out to me that no, you may not actually do that :D

[Feanor]

Page 23 of savage north in the model states section :)

[rgtriplec]

 

...all models that can fly and cast were given very restricted casting points.

 

Not really. There are about 2 dozen casters that have access to Wings.

[shakhak]

...all models that can fly and cast were given very restricted casting points.

 

Not really. There are about 2 dozen casters that have access to Wings.

 

The limited nature of the wings spell, is fairly different from the Flyer SA.

[spiritual_exorcist]

...all models that can fly and cast were given very restricted casting points.

 

Not really. There are about 2 dozen casters that have access to Wings.

 

The limited nature of the wings spell, is fairly different from the Flyer SA.

 

I gotta agree, wings plus a decent caster might be a cool and potentially devastating combo, but at some point the caster has to come back to Earth, so in my mind it probably isn't likely to damage the game.

 

Given this combo do you see it as being so abused or 'broken' that it doesn't belong in the game?

[rgtriplec]

 

The limited nature of the wings spell, is fairly different from the Flyer SA.

 

Actually it's not. It causes models to fly. If that were not a problem they wouldn't have tried to limit flying casters.

 

 

 

 

Given this combo do you see it as being so abused or 'broken' that it doesn't belong in the game?

 

If you wanted to abuse it you could. First off, the spell lasts two rounds that's pretty much half the game. Cast it twice and it's the whole game. I think these builds would probably need to be build against. The average build is not equipped to handle top shelf flying casters. You could cripple an army's range and magic in a turn.

 

Bloodstone - 1000 points

 

Troop 1

Kurand the Ever Living

Shaerdra, Bloodstone Matron x 2

Szerda, Priestess of the Stone

Pulger x 3

Pinner x 3

Stone Zealot x 3

Scragger x 3

Musician

 

Troop 2

Kordtok the Gutter

Shaerdra, Bloodstone Matron x 2

Pinner x 3

Stone Zealot x 3

Pulger x 3

Scragger x 3

 

Troop 3

Kordtok the Gutter

Shaerdra, Bloodstone Matron x 2

Pinner x 3

Pulger x 3

Stone Zealot x 3

Scragger x 3

 

 

Nefsokar - 989 points

 

Troop 1

Neb'nesew Ne'pet

Netikerti

Sokar's Prophets x 2

Awakened Mummy x 5

 

Troop 2

Ah'radivh

Sokar's Prophets

Fatima

Khamsin Lancer x 2

Khamsin Herdsman x 2

 

Troop 3

Ah'radivh

Sokar's Prophets

Thoth

Khamsin Herdsman x 2

Khamsin Lancer x 2

 

Troop 4

The Sphinx

 

 

 

Reven - 998 points

 

Troop 1

Gronkelfibbets and Mazak

Gonda, Goblin x 2

Beastman Woodcutter x 3

Harpy x 2

 

Troop 2

Dantral, Half-Orc

Gonda, Goblin

Yagun Oog, Ogre Mage

Beastman Woodcutter x 3

Harpy x 2

 

Troop 3

Dantral, Half-Orc

Gonda, Goblin

Ombur Skulltooth, Bull Orc

Beastman Woodcutter x 3

Harpy x 2

 

Troop 5

Dantral, Half-Orc

Gonda, Goblin x 2

Beastman Woodcutter x 3

Harpy x 2

 

Troop 9

Albatross Amulet

[spiritual_exorcist]

I can see your concern, played correctly and in the right order you could make very potent spellcasting units that would rarely have to land. I'm not sure it is a game breaker, but it would be difficult to play against to a degree. The key to making it especially effective would be trying to get 2 activations in a row, not all that hard to do really. Still, is the investment in so many casters to create a flying force any different or more powerful than a force using Teleport, Part Death's River, Blink, Hover, or Fly? I'm not sure, it becomes a one trick pony to a large degree.

 

I do take your point on board.

[rgtriplec]

It is a one trick pony, but most lists that get labeled as broken are. IMO, in the end Wings is not the problem, it is having non-unique casters. I think being able to take 6 or 7 casters with the Barrage spell is even more dangerous. Or, a Merc list that can have three Holds and half dozen Dominions a round, and the thing is the lists don't necessarily have to be weak in other areas to be a good trick lists. Especially when there are non-unique casting leaders like Taletia and Deckard.

 

 

Edit: Actually I meant Smite and not Domination.

[spiritual_exorcist]

It is a one trick pony, but most lists that get labeled as broken are. IMO, in the end Wings is not the problem, it is having non-unique casters. I think being able to take 6 or 7 casters with the Barrage spell is even more dangerous. Or, a Merc list that can have three Holds and half dozen Dominions a round, and the thing is the lists don't necessarily have to be weak in other areas to be a good trick lists. Especially when there are non-unique casting leaders like Taletia and Deckard.

 

Both Taletia and Deckard are very limited in the number of decent spells they can cast.

 

Lets be honest, you'd probably get use your Barrage trick on an opponent once. The next time they saw you drop a huge number of Taletias on the board they would be much more prepared (whether they had tailored their army or not). I like Talentia as a Chains of binding girl much more than Barrage. AOE 3" is awefully small, if your opponent is aware of Talentia's ability to cast Barrage you are unlikely to get more than 1-2 models in each blast, and even then your X-bowmen only have RAV 5 when focused, which in general means you will usually be scoring 1 wound per Barrage shot on average; essentially doubling the effectiveness of your X-bowmen for a turn, and leaving you with a 1sp Talentia. Do I think using Talentia in large numbers could be effective, for sure, but not game breaking.

 

Deckard's domination, I'd say you could make a much better case for. Firstly because domination has a much greater potential impact in terms of the damage you can do with it, and secondly Deckard is a decent model even without his spellcasting ability. He can readily toss his domination early in the game and still be exceptionally useful throughout (not that Talentia can't be useful, but after she pops a Barrage she becomes a Bolt Hurler, and range 9 puts her in serious danger).

 

The only other non-unique leader caster that one might be able to take offence to (I'm fine with the SP:3/x ones) is Yenkrak. He might be the worst of the lost with his Divine Might, and the ability to cast it twice in a game. Slap a cheap Warbringer in Each unit and suddenly you can be doing alot of damage, still it is an expensive proposition.

 

Anyway, I'd invite you to try your wings heavy armies and let us know what kind of results you get.

[shakhak]

If someone wants to lift their mage into the air, then go ahead. There are plenty of in game counters for such a tactic and every single army in the game has the ability to use them.

1. Wing lock - Can bring multiple models to the ground for the same number of spell points it costs to cast Wings on one model.
2. Ranged Attacks - Every time you grant a caster flight, it grants LoS to every model on the board, spells in general are shorter than ranged attacks.
3. Other Flyers - The point cost of natural flyers compared to spell casters casting Wings on each other would give the natural flyers an advantage.

 

The discussion on the balance of Non-Unique mages has nothing to do with this thread, but spending 300 points on 6 models that can cast domination at a CP 6 (~60% failure on average) and then they run out of spells just isn't that scary.

[rgtriplec]

We should play at Clint's some time.

[shakhak]

We should play at Clint's some time.

I don't know where Clint's is? Toss me a website link or an address.

 

We're at YottaQuest almost every Thursday and East Side Gamers in Milford on some weekends.