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Thumpernicus

I'm Mad as Heck and I'm not going to take it anymore!

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One more time on Merisiel. This is not a Reaper Miniature, it is a Pathfinder Miniature that was sculpted by Crocodile Games when they held the license. When the license was shifted to Reaper all the existing work that was done by Crocodile Games went with to Reaper as well. That is a Chris Fitzpatrick sculpt and he is one of the best in the business, pose not withstanding.

 

I assume that is directed, at least in part, towards me. My comment was not regarding the actual designer/manufacturer, but the oddity of using such an intricate and detailed miniature up in the same paragraph in which criticism for having miniatures that lack detail is found.

 

There are multiple posts picking out this sculpt in particular that, for the most part, want to blame Reaper for it. In my opinion based on the direction of this thread this sculpt should not even be mentioned here. It is not commissioned by Reaper.

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Also I want to know if Ed is serious on hearing criticism because I'm not going to waste breath if it is not even considered.

 

When Mil-Net was just a CAV fan-site back in 2002, three of us staffers were at GenCon helping demo the game. Ed took us out for lunch one day to talk about the game and there's one thing that's stuck with me after all of these years. He told me that if we ever thought that what they were doing was crap, that he wanted us to call him on it. He lived up to that over the years.

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This reminds me of the time somebody complained about a New Release. They e-mailed us a link to ONE of the TEN figures we came out with that week, and said "If this figure is indicative of the kind of quality your company is turning out, I shall take my business elsewhere."

 

To be fair, the figure in question *was* really unpopular, and in the end, sold very poorly and was cancelled. But of the other 9 figures in that release, 3 of them are still around today as perennial good sellers. Judging the entire release by 1 figure is like judging the entire Pathfinder line by one figure.

 

Really. We have over 3,500 products in our online store. I'm going to bet you that there is 1 product up there (a different one for each of you, to be sure, but each of you has one) that you despise. The argument that if we stock even 1 figure you hate means you're gonna boycott us, then I hate to see what happens when you go to Wal-Mart and they have a Justin Bieber CD, or a Twilight book, or Brussels Sprouts...

 

 

 

(and now I'm gonna get flames from Bieber fans, Twilight fans, and people who like Brussels Sprouts (Which, for the record, I like Sprouts, but not the other two))

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There are lots of Reaper sculpts I don't like. On the other hand, I've got a box of 300 or so reaper sculpts I do like not counting the couple-hundred-ish ones I've painted and sold or the 100+ long list of "must haves". Back to the likes/don't likes...apparently I know exactly nothing about what is a good sculpt or a good paint job...example: I paint two mini's one I love the sculpt and the paintjob, the other is ok sculpt and I painted it to get rid of it while I was half-asleep and watching hockey. Guess which one sold on ebay for twice the opening bid while the other got listed thrice before selling for a couple bucks more than it cost. So obviously what I like is not necessarily what everyone else likes.

 

Point is, I think you'll always find mini's you like/don't like from any company, that is producing mini's, but by far Reaper is the best bang for the buck in my opinion. Will I like everything that is produced? not a chance. Will I like enough to keep me coming back? You betcha'.

 

-Z

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(and now I'm gonna get flames from Bieber fans, Twilight fans, and people who like Brussels Sprouts (Which, for the record, I like Sprouts, but not the other two))

 

 

Whatev! Like Baby! Baby! Baby! Edward is so totally gonna kick ur butt!

 

 

 

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There are lots of Reaper sculpts I don't like. On the other hand, I've got a box of 300 or so reaper sculpts I do like not counting the couple-hundred-ish ones I've painted and sold or the 100+ long list of "must haves". Back to the likes/don't likes...apparently I know exactly nothing about what is a good sculpt or a good paint job...example: I paint two mini's one I love the sculpt and the paintjob, the other is ok sculpt and I painted it to get rid of it while I was half-asleep and watching hockey. Guess which one sold on ebay for twice the opening bid while the other got listed thrice before selling for a couple bucks more than it cost. So obviously what I like is not necessarily what everyone else likes.

 

 

 

-Z

 

Glad to know this happens to someone else too. Not to mention people on CMoN tell me all the time, "hey Great paint job on a horrendous model!"

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We have over 3,500 products in our online store.

 

You act like this a lot to keep up with. I mean, really? 3,500? That's it?!? Gawd, what a bunch of slackers you guys are! :rolleyes:

 

:lol:

 

Wild Bill :blues:

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Do you really mean this because the manager at my FLGS thinks Reaper has become increasingly unreachable?

Not jumping in to defend Reaper here or saying your FLGS store manager is lying, but would like to mention some of my own experiences with this kind of hearsay, because it often puts things in perspective to think about the whole story and what they're not saying.

 

I do tech support for a manufacturer of industrial control systems. Most of our customers are distributors who are supposed to provide the support to the end user. I can't tell you how many times I've heard scathing things about one or more of our distributors from an end user, and how the distributor isn't supporting the end user - which is the excuse the end user uses to get me to help them directly. More often than not, though, further investigation of the situation reveals there is something on the end users side that they aren't revealing to just anyone. Like that they owe the distributor money, or are engaged in a lawsuit with them - stuff like that. Sometimes it's just something beyond the distributors control, and sometimes even the distributor is truly at fault - but the bottom line is that there is almost always more to the story than the complaint being voiced to a third party.

 

It can be something really stupid and benign, too. I can't count the number of times I've had customers get ahold of me saying "I called every day last week, and no one ever called me back." Maybe that's because they never actually left a message. Or maybe they left a bad phone number (I'm still surprised at the number of people who don't leave their area code). Or they're leaving cryptic messages on the voice mail of one of my co-workers who has no idea the call was meant for me. Maybe I did get all their messages, but they never answered their phone when I called back. Similar things with email, too - I've got one customer whom I never get emails from - we've torn through our email systems to figure out why - some spam blocker somewhere is stopping them. I even gave the guy my personal email address, and they eventually started getting blocked there, too. The one that really killed me, though, was the regional phone company who let some sort of 1-800 agreement collapse. This guy in Vermont could no longer each us because for some reason, when he dialed our 1-800 number, his local phone company told him the number had been disconnected. He simply assumed we were out of business and started telling everyone that instead of trying to contact us another way. Once we found out about it, we were able to sort out that it was his phone company's fault.

 

Sometimes it gets really out of hand. I had an end user call me a few years back, claiming that no one in his area would service our equipment. This was highly unusual - it's the only area of the country where we have more than 3 distributors - in fact, we have 3 really good ones, and 4 mediocre ones in this area. After a little investigating, I found that this particular end user owed five of the distributors money and was involved in two different lawsuits with two of them over those debts. So of course, the 6th and 7th distributors had heard about all this, and weren't about to do anything for this guy without cash upfront. Which, after I had the facts, had to be my policy, too - if he already owes five of my customers money, chances are I'm not going to get paid, either. Of course, that pissed this guy off to no end - he started bad mouthing us everywhere, claiming he was the victim and all his woes were our fault. Reality was, the guy just didn't pay his bills and was dealing with the consequences in a piss poor manner.

 

The other guy - the distributors and manufacturers - tend to take a lot of heat for their customers - the sites and stores. Remember - it's convenient for that far away entity to take the blame so the local guy can save face. As a manufacturer's rep, I fully accept that I'm often going to get the blame for a lot of things that are actually the distributors fault - like someone forgetting to place an order. For a good distributor who doesn't abuse it, I'll even happily back their story up to help maintain the illusion for them.

 

If a store is having problems with their finances and can't order new stock, they aren't going to admit that to their customer - it's much, much easier to say "Hey, the manufacturer is out of stock" or "X screwed up again" than admit they don't have cash flow to order. I've even seen store owners lie to their own employees about that type of situation. And unless they're a really horrible customer, chances are Reaper will never publicly put the blame back on them if it's something like them owing Reaper money. Or maybe they're relying on one form of communication like phoning a particular number or strictly email , and there is actually another problem affecting communications.

 

 

Again, I'm not saying that any of this is the case here - only pointing out that often times there is another side to the story. Sometimes you can tell which is the case by trying to be helpful - if they grow resentful of your help, it's probably something they don't want you to know. But if it somethin benign and stupid - like an email or phone problem - it could be doing everyone a big favor.

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I recently ordered a few minis, one of which had some casting issues. I contacted the customer service dept via email and was very pleased with the quality of service I received. I was shipped out a new mini which arrived quickly and in good condition, along with good communication throughout, and this was all in the middle of the ice storm. The experience has definitely made a great impression on me.

 

With regard to the level of quality of sculpting, I think most of the work is excellent. I think if one is going to make statements about quality and how it's perceived to have gone down so drastically overall, then that energy would be better used in sculpting something oneself. If you don't like it, work to change it. Preferably with a positive action like sculpting something insanely good thus pushing the hobby/medium forward as a whole.

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I do find it odd, though, that you can blast Reaper for falling detail standards, yet you hold up the Merisiel mini as an example, when that is one of the most detailed and involved mini's I have ever seen, Reaper or otherwise.

 

The pose is quite ridiculous though.

 

That is fine that you disagree. However the quality of a mini encompasses many aspects: Proportion, detail, "realism", pose, construction material, casting process and even how much effort is put into removing flash before stuffing it into a package. As far as Merisiel is concerned, my only gripe is pose. I understand Reaper had nothing to do with this model in particular, but when people say it was based on "actual" pathfinder art, that is not completely true. Most of the Pathfinder minis are sculpted to look almost EXACTLY like the art. Why someone took the liberty to pose her so ridiculously when the art itself was far better, I will never know... I digress. The point I was making with Merisiel is that POSE is an important part of quality. It is an example of a detailed mini that that someone put a lot of time and effort into that is all but ruined with a goofy pose that does not do it justice. Pick your absolute favorite Reaper mini... now, would you still think it was that cool if it was posed as the poster child for the "Ministry of Silly Walks"???

 

Yes, I am a CAV player. I also love Sandra Garrity's work (not all, but most, and that's ok), but I also love Jason Wiebe's work (not all, but most, and that's ok), Gene Van Horne (not all, but most, and that's ok), as well as Julie Guthrie (not all, but most, and that's ok) and others. But my collection of Dark Heaven and Warlord minis FAR surpasses my CAV because I am a ravenous 3.5/ Pathfinder player. I understand that the BL, swag, etc. programs were perks, NOT rights. Am I sad when soemthing really cool goes away? Hell yes! Who wouldn't be? I NEVER demanded these programs continue, I just voiced my sadness that they were going, going and then gone. I am glad to hear something is in the works to return at some point. That gives me hope and hope is better than nothing at all.

 

To Mr. Pugh:

Thank you for listening, though it does come across as sarcastic and disingenuine in some ways and I am not sure who you are aiming it at. I will endeavor to come up with a few specific examples of what I am talking about "quality-wise" that is more than "I just don't like that mini". I would love to do so for your whole line, alas I am not paid to be quality control, but I will try to back up what I have said. AGAIN, I am not trying to just complain. I hope you recognize and appreciate that I temper what I say with positive commentary as well. If you want I will even post it in your new thread.

 

 

To Anne:

While I understand what you are getting at, telling me to go sculpt my own mini if I am not happy is childish. I have SEEN and PURCHASED most of the greatness that REAPER has created. I KNOW they can do BETTER than what I have seen of late. I know the economy sucks and small(er) companies like Reaper suffer greatly for it. I am ONLY asking for Reaper to not lower their standards. So, I am attempting to "work to change it", by expressing my opinion and being constructive about it. I will continure to be MORE constructive and specific as long as Reaper cares to hear me out.

 

To Everyone Else:

I am NOT ATTACKING your beloved Reaper for trolling sake or any other nefarious purpose. Please read my posts and UNDERSTAND the intent before replying. I LOVE REAPER MINIATURES! Do YOU not want something you LOVE to ALWAYS strive to be BETTER??? I do. I am saying what I say BECAUSE I care about Reaper. Look at how many posts I have made in my YEARS of being a BL. I do not flame, I do not troll and when I do have something to say, it is for a good damn reason.

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To Mr. Pugh:

Thank you for listening, though it does come across as sarcastic and disingenuine in some ways and I am not sure who you are aiming it at. I will endeavor to come up with a few specific examples of what I am talking about "quality-wise" that is more than "I just don't like that mini". I would love to do so for your whole line, alas I am not paid to be quality control, but I will try to back up what I have said. AGAIN, I am not trying to just complain. I hope you recognize and appreciate that I temper what I say with positive commentary as well. If you want I will even post it in your new thread.

 

I can easily see you might read it that way, but it is more frustration on my part than anything else. I will always listen to, evaluate and attempt to work through any and every complaint. I cannot work through an opinion-complaint. I like to believe that Reaper is a "copy machine" of sorts. We tend not to mess with concept art and also give the sculptor very wider latitude in interpreting the art. Both art inputs have served our fans very well. No harm, no foul on my end~

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Thumpernicus,

 

If you really wanted to be constructive and positively change Reaper, you could:

  • provide more than one example with specific issues for each example rather than broad statements like:
    Now, with a few exceptions, the minis are becoming less detailed and more generic.
     
  • stop attacking people who disagree with you and making statements that dismiss their opinions like:
    You cannot tell me straightfaced that the latest additions of CAV and Chrono minis have been made with the same level of quality that Reaper is KNOWN for.
    I am not here to debate with Reaper zealots. I get it. Reaper can do no wrong in your eyes. That's fine. Good for you.

 

Ron

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"To Anne:

While I understand what you are getting at, telling me to go sculpt my own mini if I am not happy is childish. I have SEEN and PURCHASED most of the greatness that REAPER has created. I KNOW they can do BETTER than what I have seen of late. I know the economy sucks and small(er) companies like Reaper suffer greatly for it. I am ONLY asking for Reaper to not lower their standards. So, I am attempting to "work to change it", by expressing my opinion and being constructive about it. I will continure to be MORE constructive and specific as long as Reaper cares to hear me out."

 

To Thumpernicus: You have not provided any positive specifics of what translates as quality to your eyes. I was merely suggesting that you present a clearer positive example or even better, demonstration, of a sculpt that exemplifies the standard of craftsmanship you’re looking for. When you don’t provide anything substantially positive with your critiques, your comments can NOT fall under the category of constructive, and instead come across as a whiny customer is always right attitude. Yes you can talk with your wallet but it’s more impressive to talk with your skills (complaining is not a skill).

 

For someone claiming to be posting out of love for Reaper as a company, your comments are pretty disrespectful and rude to the artists who work for the company. Black Lightning or no, that’s not cool.

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Ideally, post links to 10 models that you feel exemplify high quality, and 10 that you feel exemplify the lower quality standards you are seeing. Then by reference we should be able to see where you are coming from.

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