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CrispyMerc

Why no premeasurement?

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I was wondering why you have to rely on your 20-20 eyesight? In the WWII "flames of war" game you are allowed to measure everything all the time, and it works fine. I just can't see the point in all this rangeguessing. All this failed charge and outrange stuff seems like some old warhammer-ripoff that only rewards those with good measurement abillities. Ok it adds an element of gambling (especially for those with heavy glasses), but think it would be nicer just to be able to measure everything.

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No pre-measurement is not unique to Warlord. There are still plenty of miniature rules out there that don't allow you to pre-measure.

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Plenty of sci-fi games allow you to premeasure. I'm pretty sure they've got a range finding device in a CAV.

 

I would find it strange in Warlord or any fantasy game.

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It really isn't about always guessing range but keeping track of all movements. By doing that you can know exactly where everything is using basic arithmetic. The ranges on everything in warlord are so massive that you can probaly hit whatever you want.

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One thing to keep in mind...

 

Although all combat of the same type have to be done at the same time, all movement happens independently and in between and whenever you want within your activation. So, that means that while you cannot premeasure you can declare, measure, and carry out one model's actions, and then use those results to give yourself knowledge on how you want to declare any other models in that troop.

 

For example, if you intend to have 4 models charge the same target, you do NOT have to declare all of them at the same time. Movement is not a combat type. You only have to declare one model's movement actions at a time. You could use that one model to figure out if the rest could make it or not.

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I believe the official reason RAGE games don't allow premeasuring, is that it was found to slow down the game.

If you have played any game with pre measure you would know this isn't the case.

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Why no premeasurement? Why do you have to call your shots in pool?

 

Because that's what the rule is. Yes, it could have easily been decided by the design team that premeasurement was allowed. But it wasn't.

 

You are always free to play with premeasuring for friendly games.

 

~v

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It's an anti-new guy rule (but we have had this discussion before on the lists), that really only come into play in official tourneys. It is an advantage for players that play the game a lot, same as having to call shots in pool (new guys don't call shots). If you are just learning the game and the player across from you won't let you pre-measure or even take back a mistake move, then you probably need to find another player to help you learn the game. Once you have played the game for a while, then I will feel free to ridicule you for premeasuring. But then, this is only my personal opinion on the subject. ik_wink.gif

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I believe the official reason RAGE games don't allow premeasuring, is that it was found to slow down the game.

If you have played any game with pre measure you would know this isn't the case.

 

That was the official reason given to the playtesters of CAV 1.5. But like most things it depends on the players. There is always "that one guy" who always insists on pre-measuring everything for every possible scenrio he could make for each his models.

 

By the way, for causual games I allow pre-measuring... and it does slow down the game.

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In all the groups I've played with, to pre-measure or not to pre-measure has always been a house rule, regardless of what any given game says. Most of the time it's been "no-premeasuring" - because of this:

 

There is always "that one guy" who always insists on pre-measuring everything for every possible scenrio he could make for each his models.

 

I've found that no pre-measuring isn't really an anti-new guy rule, as much as a "can't estimate distances" bias. I've seen new guys with no experience do quite fine at estimating the distances, and I've seen long term gamers struggle with it, regardless of game. But it's one of those skills that can honed with use. And IMO, allowing pre-measuring really doesn't hone a person's estimating skill.

 

The trick to making new gamers and those who can't estimate distances feel welcome with no pre-measuring is to make sure they have known distances on the table top that they can use for their estimates. There are a few ways to do this.

 

- Playing on Geohex terrain(sadly not available any more) or other modular "tile" terrain makes estimating easier, because the tiles are a known distance - IE, for Geohex, the hexes are 12" across.

 

- whomever places the terrain can measure some distances between various terrain features, and make these distances known to the other players

 

- allow players at the beginning of the game, before any figures are placed, to make as many measurements of the table and terrain as they like.

 

- Make the measurements of any terrain features (especially ones that are used often in different games) well known. It really helps if everyone in the group knows that temple model is 8" x 10", that tavern is 4" x 6", etc.

 

- if you regularly switch back and forth between games using inches and centimeters, have a conversion chart handy - most people can only estimate in one measurement system.

 

The more you practice it, the better you'll get at it - and those with the skill really should be doing their best to help those without the skill.

 

Bottom line is, as long as you're playing casual games, play with or without pre-measuring as decided by your group, not what the rules say. I've only run across one game where changing that would change the flavor of the game considerably - Pirates, by Seventh Street Games (or is it Flagship Games?).

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**SNIP** The ranges on everything in warlord are so massive that you can probaly hit whatever you want.

 

I don't have a strong bias either way, but you make a very good point about the ranges in Warlord. You start out

24" away from each other.... which is the long range for most of the standard archers.

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**SNIP** The ranges on everything in warlord are so massive that you can probaly hit whatever you want.

 

I don't have a strong bias either way, but you make a very good point about the ranges in Warlord. You start out

24" away from each other.... which is the long range for most of the standard archers.

When you look at ranges of shooting and movement from a design perspective you begin to notice tje basis of any game. Warlord's ranges are such that you're engaged on turn one so movement is about getting the best position to engage. Other fantasy skirmish games have smaller ranges and therefore movement becomes more omportant necause now you might not engage on turn 1 or 2. Personally unless there is a game mechanic where premeasuring may change there is really no reason to not allow it. For Warlord because other than combat actions you can do what you want you're already premeasuring as Stubbdog pointed out. Speaking strictly from a game mechanics perspective there is no real reason especially in friendly games to not allow it. Especially since it is relatively easy to get off a turn one melee alpha strike.

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I don't see what the big deal is.

 

Personally, I think that having to calculate ranges for shooting and charges adds an interesting "aw crap" element to the game.

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I believe the official reason RAGE games don't allow premeasuring, is that it was found to slow down the game.

If you have played any game with pre measure you would know this isn't the case.

 

That was the official reason given to the playtesters of CAV 1.5. But like most things it depends on the players. There is always "that one guy" who always insists on pre-measuring everything for every possible scenrio he could make for each his models.

 

By the way, for causual games I allow pre-measuring... and it does slow down the game.

Seconded. Bogs Battletech down to pondwater speed if a couple key players show up. They min max EVERYTHING and it drains the life of things.

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