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Stubbdog

Crispy Mercs

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Yeah, sorry, I didn't go back and edit the Okuran to Lancers; it is easier to build the list in the army builder subbing a same-point model.

 

I don't think it is *necessary* to take the Lancers to pressure the Darkspawn. It's one route to go, if you are determined to use the Bounty doctrine. And you certainly could play Crusaders instead... and not have the point-efficient Merc soldier datacards as an option. Just because you take Lancers doesn't turn your list into a Crusaders list, any more than adding some Gaan-Hor would make you a Reptus list. The Mercs are mercenaries; the doctrine represents that sometimes they pick up people with special skills (read: datacards outside their normal faction list).

 

Also, if your opponent knows you've brought lancers, and backs off his deployment, there is nothing that says that you have to rush across the table to take him. Make him change his tactics by Rangering *backwards*, and force him to burn more models to chain his way across the table.

 

The switch to Gars is entirely about points; I like the swap because I'd be likely to use the caster to throw down Smites - at which point a high CP is less necessary - and the savings between that and the gear gets me two more Axeman to benefit from the Smites. If you prefer Leisynn, that's your choice. I like Liesynn too, but I can get almost the same bang from another caster, and more meat shields to boot.

 

And I think you can give Darkspawn a run for their money with an all-Merc list using the core of what I put in back in Post #5 of this thread. Brining a bunch of cheaper models, along with using some smart deployment and deck control, and you can make things very rough on the Darkspawn list.

 

~v

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I would like to hear a bit more about this smart deployment (lets say we take the last list and keep the okuran). My opponent would probably start shooting with his "assassin", chain his flyers to snack(swiftattack) my wizards and fire away with damage magic(using a familiar as eyes). If I stayback I will take more damage and is now probably a wizard or 2 fewer, If I go forward he will commit his bigguys with spellsupport (at this point the sorry survivors are either stunned or don't dare to attack fearsome monsters- who in turn just walk out of combat if they think they may lose)

This way he has broken both my move and magic. I have never played against it with a heavy-drawdeck and rerolls, but I just can't see how I can use this in my favour(being crippled with both move and magic). I have thought about finding points to buy amours of flesh to my wizards so they become less tasty for flyers (or atleast ½ of them)or dropping spellcasters altogether except for some cheap ones that could support with smite in the corners of the board(like you suggested). With 3 imps he can be in range of my with wizards with his swiftattack flyers (who almost have guaranteed success in killing softtargets).

 

Running around on the backline doesn't appeal much to me, and makes it a boring game dictated by the darkspawn doctrine. I'll probably stick with the lancers to get more action.

 

 

If Merc soldiers are very point efficient, then that is almost a doctrine in itself - but I have never thought of them that way.

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The list I presented has the greater ability to control the deck that his Darkspawn list. Knowing when and how to do that is a major part of the strategy in beating your opponent. Even with a mini daisychain, your opponent cannot act with everything he has at once; he will have to make choices. And by deploying deep and spread, you are forcing him to a) spend more resources just trying to get to you, and b) leaving him to pick excatly who he is going to go after. Your opponent has 11 demons in the list, and a minimum of 1 of them must be deployed to even start the process. The most likely choices are the 2 demon imps; if 1 imp moves, summons a 2nd imp, and it moves, the second imp is now at 19" out from the deployement zone, 5" from the front of your zone. This puts your casters in the corner ~19" away from the imp if it is in the center of the battlefield (from side-to-side). This means that he'll need to summon a 3rd model if he wants to go after 1 caster, or a 3rd and a 4th to go after 2 casters. This means he is now dropping models of value in your deployment, in range of your other caster and/or RAV-capable models. Gars is a 3 DT caster, and even with a low DV, is unlikely to be killed outright if he only brings 3 Succubi against her. Deckard has a higher DV and 3 DT as well. Only Olivia is truly vulnerable to being wiped off the table, and more often than not, your control of the deck will have allowed her to play her big hand first (either Burst of Speed or Iron Skin). Further, all 3 casters are decent in melee (MAV 4, Gars has Poison to boot, and Deckard has 2 attacks plus Bludgeon).

 

All of this means that you have forced your opponent to commit more points to trying to wipe your casters, leaving several of his models isolated in the middle of your deployment zone, easily in range of Rush-attacking Axemen. Isolate, overwhelm, move on to the next target.

 

Here's the modified list I'd would use with Scoundrel's Luck:

 

Mercs - 750 points

 

Troop 1

Boris Mingla w/Armor of Courage, Assassin's Blade

Gars Necka

Mercenary Axeman x 7

Mercenary Spearman x 3

 

Troop 2

Deckard Nightveil, Death Priest w/Book of Tactics

Mercenary Axeman x 4

Mercenary Spearman x 2

 

Troop 3

Hedasaa, Cultist Leader

Olivia, Priestess of Shadarzaddi

Darkthrall Cultist x 2

Mercenary Axeman x 2

 

Troop 4

Dendris, Assassin

 

Luck Stone

 

I moved Olivia to Troop 3 so that you can activate that troop first (either from the draw, or via Spy, if you want to assure the activation); she can then cast IronSkin on Boris which will last to the end of turn 2. If she does nothing else from this point on, she's probably been worth her points. This leaves you poised and waiting with Troops 1 & 2 if your opponent wants to bring the chain, ready to bury any model he's foolish enough to bring into your deployment zone. If he doesn't take the bait, then the stand-up fight is on. Go get some.

 

~v

 

 

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I can see this may work if you play a standard scenario, as he either has to take the bait and go all in or end up playing the worlds most boring waitinggame . If you have to take some point in the center(scenario) to win, then you still have to walk in to where he get all advantages.

 

I wonder why you don't take elandaria instead of Gars? she is 3pts cheaper and have 2 attacks(+vengeful&teleportspell), Its not like a bunch of axemen need an incite spell.

Another thing I thought of was adding some more crossbows to rear, if you are going to play ultra defence anyway and just stand and and wait for the chain. Also having a musician with a big bunch of axemen also seems like a good idea as they can rushattack longer.

 

Something like this....

 

1 Boris Mingla (118)

5 Mercenary Axeman (16)

1 Mercenary Spearman (12)

1 Elandaria (U) (59)

1 Assassin's Blade (20)

1 Musician (15)

 

 

Troop 2

1 Deckard Nightveil, Death Priest (59)

1 Mercenary Spearman (12)

4 Mercenary Axeman (16)

1 Book of Tactics (10)

 

 

Troop 3

1 Haranobu (U) (82)

1 Olivia, Priestess of Shadarzaddi (U) (45)

2 Mercenary Crossbowman (27)

1 Mercenary Spearman (12)

1 Mercenary Axeman (16)

 

 

Troop 4

1 Dendris, Assassin (U) (88)

 

 

Troop 5

1 Luck Stone (3)

 

7 cards+2spy & boris

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That is the beauty of this game...

 

There will always be another army combination to consider... "what if I put this with that? Oh wait what about that with this?" And the answer will always be the same: "It depends on what you are facing off against and what you have to do in the game..."

 

In the end, all of our suggestions are just that suggestions...

 

As Psyberwolfe said over in the Azazel thread, it is like a huge game of rock paper scissors, but with many more levels. But, in this game, some faction's rocks still beat another faction's paper.

 

Heck, if it were me, since I heard you say that you are playing with a bunch of proxies anyway, I would throw a curve ball at him and next game roll out a bunch of Necro vampires, nefsokar constructs, or Reptus flyers just for the fun of it.

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I can see this may work if you play a standard scenario, as he either has to take the bait and go all in or end up playing the worlds most boring waitinggame . If you have to take some point in the center(scenario) to win, then you still have to walk in to where he get all advantages.

 

I wonder why you don't take elandaria instead of Gars?

Trust me, a list like that works just fine in scenarios. Ask anyone that was on the receiving end of my Merc list last year at RCon. It wasn't radically different from what we've been bantering around, and it was brutally effective.

 

RE: Elandaria... probably because a) I don't care for the sculpt, and b) I prefer Gars' CP on 3rd DT. Even wounded, she still has a 70% chance of success on non-attack spells. Also, Gars has a spiffy Dis score, which is good for breaking B2B to get off one last spell without a CP penalty later in the game. That's worth the 3 points to me. If you prefer Elandaria, knock yourself out. There is something to be said for having access to Arcane in the list.

 

~v

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I think I'll take my chances with rerolls next time. If everything fails I can always use the rerolls to keep Boris running around and tough it out.

Its going to be hard without an alpha strike...but I can see that I'm lucky in my doctrine :)

 

I'll probably try some of the other armies when I have a feeling that my Mercs work the way I want them to (I have Elves, necro, reven & dwarves in my "to do" workshop". I think the return of Kagunk is first on my list.

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Crispy you don't have to abandon your alpha strike. Two arcane casters with familiars, musician in troop with minitaurs equals a 34.5" threat zone. I'm sure those two minitaurs will murder his two casters in a single turn with the scoundrel's luck doctrine. Or they could murder his one or two demons on the board. Thus completely shutting down the daisychain. This does rely on you controlling the draw deck though. This way you're dominating movement, melee, and initiative, and you run the distinct possibility of shutting down one of the aspects he controls.

 

Sheesh! I feel like an arms dealer now. Have fun with your arms race! LOL. ::D:

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In 14 days we are going to have our epic battle. I managed to make good use with the rerolls and smite Vs elves yesterday (however that bless spell on archers were nasty). I even forgot that I could turn 1's into 10's. Azazel had a little harder time against Overlords and their high MD/DV, than he was used to.

I had 7 cards+2 spy, and that ment i went first a lot of the time, so I'll probably keep going for a decent amount of cards in the future. Boris also beat the hell out of a lot of elves. Dendris also proved very irritating (Think I have completely underestimated this guy). Forgot to use teleport with my arcane caster.

 

So after the last game, I felt that I could look forward to being outshot and outmoved. I began more and more to get the feeling that smite+treasure hoard would be the way to go with these guys. While probably taken a lot of range casualties, rerolls, smite & battle totem could perhaps make the few remaining troops into insane killingmachines that would send anything to the hospital. However keeping a smite-battery & a treasure hoard may be a bit overkill.

 

So any ideas regarding the use of treasurehoard is welcome.

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I have been preparing the final touches on my list, for our epic 800 pts monday game. I have tried to pick up as much advice as I could from these pages and brew it into something new. One thing I decided was that my wizards was fastfood for daisyflyers, so I decided to leave them out (keeping only deckard for smite & spy). Instead of using millions of points on more smite-casters I have decided that the treasurehoard would be more reliable.

Boris and his assassin blade had been so good action, that I thought it would be a keeper. Dendris who have surprised in a positiveway, was also a keeper. I think he can act as luftwaffe 88, and shoot down flyers who wants to steal goldcoins (which is easier than protecting wizards).

Having increased MAV i decided to add okuran, minotaur, mika for cleaving and a warrior just for kicks and 2 attacks (combined with smite, then they would be very nasty). Boris and his axemen boys have added a musician to get more reach for rush attacks. As a joker I have added Raseri with the stealth cloak to perhaps hunt wizards and avoid being shot down by missiles on the way.

I hope that the 4 rerolls & luckstone will give me enough edge after taking casualties from rangeattacks, if I decide to go on the offence.

 

My list have been made simpler and more crude. Adding a treasurehoard-battletotem also seems very merc like. It got 5cards/2spy + boris, which would be a bit over average initiative in our group. While ofcourse thinking how they do against Azazels über demons, I also think they would go well against overlords who doesnt get any benefit from their doctrine(except spypower). They will get a hard time against our elfplayer who has gotten an increased liking for spells & range attacks, unless I control the initiative. Not the flashy a bit of everythingarmy I started out with, but I think this is solid :)

 

--

Heres my list..please come with suggestions (Im not sure if I should find points fore more assassinblades or book of tactics)

 

 

Troop 1 (runners)

Boris Mingla

Mercenary Axeman x 6

Musician

Assassin's Blade

 

Troop 2 (cleavers)

Deckard Nightveil, Death Priest

Okuran x 2

Minotaur

Mercenary Warrior

Mika, Samurai Heroine

Mercenary Spearman

 

Troop 3

Dendris, Assassin

 

Troop 4

Raseri, Raging Barbarian

Shadow Armor

 

 

Luck Stone - Battletotem

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Isn't list building fun?

 

 

Cant really give much for suggestions.. We have already discussed several different paths you could take over these past few weeks. IF I were to make suggetsions, it would just be rehashing some of those other discussions again. We could talk all day long about different synergies that you acn create or maximize.

 

The best plans are screwed up with a bad die roll or a bad initiative draw. The guy getting his arse kicked all over the table for the first 3 turns has come back to win many a game based on a few key card flips late in the game.

 

I love this game...

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Yes it sure is fun. We got 14 days between our games, so there is a lot of time consider changes.

 

I really hope this works, so the core is set for the last 200pts. I would have liked to have some more casters, but the beamdoctrine almost makes them useless or at least pointsink. The points is spread more out, with nothing especially snack'a'lecious.

 

The treasurehorde I have made is going to these guys centerpiece. I refuse to give these guys up, before I start trying reven.

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Crispy I really think the totem will let you down. In a single turn the Darkspawn can get within two inches of the totem and turn it off. Additionally you're now making his target choices easier. He goes after your Warlord first and tears up Raseri and Dendris at range with magic. Stealth doesn't help you with magical attacks. I think a caster and crossbows would be better spent points.

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Casters and xbows are usually eaten in turn 1 with swiftattacks, which is a very favorable tradeoff for the darkspawn player. There is nowhere to hide. The totem cant be destroyed as easilly and if he starts using flyers to cancel it, then the thought was that dendris could be around to shoot them down. It is ofcourse 80+88pts to act as bait. If he don't take the bait, then I will have a good edge up close. So hopefully his men would be spread out more, so they cant protect his own casters as well. My boys will ofcourse get a lot of nastyspells right in the head when going for his casters, but there is noway i can cancel his casters, like he can do to mine. What I was hoping for, was that that those who survive the spells would be that bit harder, so they could beat him up anyway.

This is not how I wanted to play the mercs, but the daisychain takes a lot of posibilities away from me. When I make lists and match them with Darkspawn I always see them as outmoved and outgunned. Keep in mind that he can puff up and start using focus to hit, this is almost a freebie teleport for a complete army.

 

I will try and see if I can come up with something better. Cavalry worked OK, but I would rather take a true-cavalry list if I take that path.

 

Edit:

Darkspawn player can hide almost all of his deployment, when deployed he can swiftattack weak casters and send the rest in closecombat getting the benefit of focus. His MD is so good that if you were to go first, it would take sheer luck to to take his casters out with magic.

Borrowed cavalry and other fast stuff can make him commit his forces, but that is not an option with rerolls.

I can see some idea in taking range stuff(a lot) as it can lock the game down, at least until he has moved his casters/familiars within range and then cross your fingers that you make all your tough rolls.

 

This list has some of the oldstuff...

Mercs - 800 points

 

Troop 1

Boris Mingla

Mercenary Crossbowman

Mercenary Axeman x 2

Mercenary Spearman

Assassin's Blade

 

Troop 2

Deckard Nightveil, Death Priest

Okuran x 2

Minotaur

Mercenary Spearman x 2

Mika, Samurai Heroine

 

Troop 3

Dingo Appledimple

Mercenary Crossbowman

Mercenary Axeman x 2

Olivia, Priestess of Shadarzaddi

 

Troop 4

Raseri, Raging Barbarian

 

Troop 5

Dendris, Assassin

 

Troop 6

Luck Stone

 

 

A second list..even more oldschool..just with not so many wizards that I started withgoes a bit more for the initiative.. It has some shooty power (2 bolts - 1 poison arrow & rapidfire). It may spook flyers a bit, forcing him to hopefully do something stupid.

It has dendris for aircover instead of a fragile leisynn and all warriors/thugs have been put on the substitutebench. Spellcasting is reduced to smite/damage reduction instead of complex burst of speed/teleport ideas. The minotauer is also a new thing - Last he became pincussion, but I have hope for him

 

Boris is nasty all by himself and I hope the cleaveguys with smite can be a bit dangerous.

 

The hard thing will really be holding back, while the cat and mouse game goes on in the sky but also staying close (but not templateclose). The best thing is that it seem funny enough to play. If I were to make a antidarkspawn list, then I would look into much faster armylist instead of mercs

 

Mercs - 798 points

 

Troop 1

Boris Mingla

Mercenary Crossbowman

Mercenary Axeman x 2

Mercenary Spearman

Assassin's Blade

 

Troop 2

Deckard Nightveil, Death Priest + book of tactics

Okuran x 2

Minotaur

Mercenary Spearman

Mercenary Axeman

 

Troop 3

Haranobu

Mercenary Axeman x 3

Mercenary Spearman

Olivia, Priestess of Shadarzaddi

 

Troop 4

Dingo Appledimple

Mercenary Crossbowman

Mercenary Axeman x 2

 

Troop 5

Dendris, Assassin

 

Troop 6

Luck Stone

 

8 cards/2 spy(+boris) 4 shooters DT#47(22 models)

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