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Hercules dropship stats


sparky
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This is a beautiful piece of work by Blitz. But I'm of the opinion that if an item hits the table it should have stats and be able to take damage. So with this in mind we need to work together and come up with stats on this baby.

 

I guess the biggest question in my mind is how many damage tracks should the drop ship be. So far the largest of CAV's has eight DT's, should it have more? Should the weapons pods have a separate set of damage tracks, so they could be disabled without destroying the dropship?

 

Movement, I don't believe that such a large craft should be able to move as fast as light fighter aircraft. So with the speed of a Kikyu at 24MM,  I'm thinking in the range of 18MM. What do you think?

 

Armor, The largest of CAV's has a natural Armor 4, this was designated because it is a hardend target, but this bird is capable of space flight. Should it have a higher armor rating? If the weapons pods have a separate set of DT's would they share the same armor value or have a different one?

 

Power would be unbelieveable, because it has to power those massive engines and all the weapons pods. I'm at a total loss here.

 

Target lock, I believe it should be by weapons pod, because they would be operated be separate teams of gunners and weapons officers. I think the standard target lock of 3 is acceptable. What do you think?

 

Electronic Counter Warfare Measures (ECM) on such a large craft I don't believe would be very high as it is such a large target. I'm going to give it a ECM 1 so it has a little chance, your thoughts?

 

Close combat - big debate, I don't think a dropship should be able to attack (ACA) and should have a nil rating, however I believe it should be able to defend itself (DCA) but I have no idea as to how well. What are your thoughts?

 

Should it be allowed to enter hybrid flight mode? I don't think so because the table is not large enough to support to many passes. I also believe that it should have difficulty turning, and only be able to turn once per movement, say at the end of its movement be able to turn a single hex facing. What are your thoughts?

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The way I made my aircraft carrier is as such:

 

Hull - 20 DT, use the 5DT degradation matrix, and it degrades one level every 4 DTs taken.

 

Electronics tower - Armor 3, 6DT, 18" Diameter ECCM, and adds a bonus TL and ECM to all the ship's other weapon emplacements, depending on how damaged it is.  I think it was like 3,3,3,2,2,1 or something.  The weapons only added their base TL bonus into the actual RAV.

 

Each weapon - Seperate unit for activation purposes.  ECM/TL like 2-3, plus the tower bonus.

 

There were eight weapons on the ship, so the ship had two cards.  The sections were built on the fly durint activation, but obviously no weapon could fire more than once.  If a weapon was targeted, the weapon would return DF.  If the hull or the tower were targeted, any one weapon could return fire.

 

So far I've played this twice, and given roughly equal points, the ship and aircraft force has won once, and the defenders have won once.

 

Hope that helps.

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To be honest, I was htinking somehting like your Corvette would work for the dropship Frosch.

 

I was thinking, is a dropship a aerospace vessel or a fortress? I think it's both, yet this does bring up somehting for the armour..... should it be soft or hard. See, I can see the argument for it being soft, because it's an aerospace craft and wouldn't be able to pack the massive composite plates I believe would be needed for a 'hard' target. Yet it is a dropship, it does need to be able to withstand some hefty punishment in space and in hyperspace, and also what about re-entry? It's darn hot on re-entry, and I can imagine a planet with a denser atmosphere would require even more thermal shielding. So, as a compromise, how about a soft target with +5 armour? :o)

 

As for the number of DT's, it is a fairly fragile unit designed to fly in oribital, deep and hyper space as well as the atmoisphere. Granted, mobility in an atmosphere should be akin to the space shuttle (can anyone say flying brick with an attitude?) but it can still do it.... so I think 8DT's would work fairly well.

 

Power. This is a real toughie, and I think it should be dealt with the way the USS Enterprise (both Star Trek and the CVN) deals with it.... have two power reactors. For the orbital and other motive systems, I think an entire breeder would be required, at which point you have no longer to worry about power cost for movement (not that I think this thing should be moving all that much in combat.... say landing on turn 3 or 4 to drop off some reinforcements). That means the Rhino or Ogre's breeders are sufficient for powering firearms... especially with two sections worth of weapons emplacements.

 

The emplacements themselves, well I think there is some extremely valid and strong arguments for making them hard targets with their own armour value... say +2 each, and have each one should have it's own electronics (say +2/+2). And like Frosch's Corvette (sorry bud, but it just ain't no carrier I've ever heard of :o)) it should have a central electronics suite which can TL one opponent per turn but can apply it's bonus to anything that fires on that target. Say +3/+3 for the central electronics... this hsould simulate only having one WSO, but it has gunners with limited optical/active sensor tracking.

 

Course, this is just my initial take on the subject. And let's not forget Blitz wants lots of different variants for the Herc....

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It's not that I want variants, I just thought that since the Herc is not official, there's no reason that every builder can't create stats to suit their needs. Especially since the weapons will vary widely (maybe less so if Reaper comes out with that accessory pack), and everyone has their own ideas, scenarios, etc.
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Hehehe, yeah I get your point Blitz.

 

Upper fore turret - twin Maxim One GRC (Rhino)

Upper rear turret - quad Model 7 DF missile pack (Rhino)

Chin turret - twin Charvel Mk II GGC (Starhawk V)

Two fixed anti-vessel GGC (BFG's)

 

After looking over the plans and the additional shots of the Herc, I'm thinking for weapons something like this is needed...

 

Main Armament (ship to ship) -

Paired GGC's, forward arc

DFM, forward arc

DFM, aft arc

 

Secondary Armament (ship to surface) -

Paired Maxim Ones, forward arc

IFM, Dorsal w/ 360 arc

Paired Charvel Mk II's, chin/rear

 

Okay, some explainations perhaps are in order.... so ppl know what I'm getting at if nothing else.

 

Firstly, ship to ship weaponry.. this I thought should go where Blitz has his ship to ship GGC's as that's a pretty cool place to put them, especially since they're fairly out of the way and it enables them to fire into the forward arc (and hence apply a LDF notation perhaps) but it'd still allow a fairly intuitive targeting motion for the pilot. Afterall, lining up the nose and pulling the trigger hsouldn't be too hard :o) These I envisioned as being more hard target capable but also capable of hitting soft targets and with a long range.... somehting like +5/+3 (perhaps +5/+4) with a range of 40".

 

The primary missile packs I thought of as covering the forward and rear arcs, but as we all know, missiles in CAV are capable of steering onto their target and don't need much (if any) in the way of an initial bearing as they're really smart missiles :o) These I thought of being along the lines of +3/+4 (something along those lines) and having a range of 60". This hsould enable the dropship to engage capital ships and other warships without too much of a problem.... course not having stats for the primary opponents is a tad hampering :o)

 

I had thought of positioning a couple of PBG's or LBG's on the leading edged of the main wings or perhaps on the wingtips of the smaller for'ard wings but I'm not sure if they'd fit. It they would, they'd be also good places to put some primary weapons, since they'd offer the ability to train to the same point as the main GGC and thus be fairly intuitive for the pilot to aim and similarly they'd be out of the way and owuldn't interfer with the arcs of the secondary wepaons.

 

The secondary weapons are supposed to help clear the LZ of enemey units and provide some covering fire for the disembarking CAV's and other units. Maxims don't have the best range, so I'd probably recreate them (need fewer DT's anyway) with a 36" range to allow them to cover the average range of an enemy gun. The Charvels, well the Hawk 6 has the best GGC's in the game in my opinion, and I think it'd be silly to not have them around. I thought of chin and tail mounts for these, or perhaps underwing mounts like Forgeworld's Thunderhawk but I'm not sure if they'd fit on the model (Blitz, would it be possible?).

 

The IFM, well the Conqueror and the Sovereign have effective IFM's which are kinda cool to have around, and if you had two of them in that turret then you have a lot of firepower you can use to soften up anyone coming to make the LZ a dangerous place to be and also can use them on approach.

 

Blitz, in case you can't tell, I'm kinda pumped on this baby.... I can't wait to see one painted up in the bright red scheme of Bad Blood and sporting some major hardware :o)

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Ok my take on this beauty.

 

Firstly I think it should have movement of hmmm lets say 1000. It should be able to just land anywhere on the table it wants, however it should not be able to then do anything except take off and exit the table. This thing can't hover over the battlefield moving from hill to hill. It will come screaming in at high speed touch done and let the troops out. It will then either take off and exit the area or stay where it landed.

 

Weaponry I would suggest that this wouldn't carry that much unless it was a support dropship with reduced cargo capacity.

 

Power enough for it's weapons load plus a little excess to start with. Movement power should be ignored.

 

Armour, sorry Frank this is a hard target and for something that carries 8 rhinos I thunk it should have a DT at least a little higher than its cargo.

 

I also think it should have a small flight deck to launch a section of gunships and have a smallish capacity for troops.

 

With this things current capacity it strike me as an equivilant of a Leopard class dropship in B-Tech.  As such designed for raiding, drop a small force in near the target they then attack get picked up and exit the area. Hence why lightish weaponry. If you ran into a heavily occupied battlefield you would just fly over it and land somewhere else. Several of these with a couple of support variants (thus a landing of a company or so) would provide enough fire power to clear an landing zone. However this is where the bigger dropships would be more suited (just as the Union and Overlord are in B-Tech)

 

Stuart

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I was going to throw in my two cents, some things that I was thinking during the design, but Stuart just did it for me. I agree with all of it except the flight deck part. Remember, CAV gunships to scale would be 3-4" long.

 

As dropships go, the Herc would be on the smaller end of the spectrum. The only thing smaller would probably be a light ship with single-section capacity.

 

Leech, I don't have any good shots of the tail underside, but there's plenty of room there for tail turrets. Also lots of room for mounting under-wing weapons, though the lower half of the winglet and the exiting CAV's would be considerations.

 

Pylons with Ripper/Whisper missiles would be interesting  :angry:

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I ended up playing fast and loose with scale on my Aircraft Carrier (yes Frank, that's why I call it a "Pocket Carrier" or "Destroyer/Carrier Hybrid").  

1.  The carrier is in scale to the terrain and all the CAVs, even the old Archer.  Yes, at the same time.

2.  The carrier is in scale to any infantry on deck.

3.  The carrier is in scale to all the aircraft and APCs.  Yes, a little direct pressure ought to stop that bleeding you're suddenly doing from the eyes.

 

An interesting variant might be letting the bottom of the chin open up like a mouth, forming a ramp for tanks and infantry to spew out.

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Stuart, my TIT conversion I see as a Broadsword/Leopard style dropship.... single section raiding force with light armament for a very hit and run kinda profile.

 

This thing I see as more of filling the role of the Union in BattleTech... it can carry a sizable force but not all that much, but can still give out a beating.

 

And remember Stuart, Bad Blood doesn't know the meaning of overkill :o) I'd rather have more weapons than needed than not enough.

 

Tracks and target type, well as I originally said, it's a judgement call and personal preference. I see no reason why a 12 DT unit with hard armour isn't feasible for the Herc, but my initial reaction was soft 8 track. Would work either way :o)

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I keep referring back to my pocket carrier, because it's the only thing I have that remotely compares. With two section worth of guns, lots of DTs, and lots of electronics, it came out to about 3000 points. I see the Hercules, even though it's about the same size, as being a lot lighter and less heavily-armed, probably around 1500-2000.

 

For weapons, all I can really see it having are a pair of cheek-mounted Chimeras for ship-to-ship combat, and maybe a couple sabretooth-equivalent AA racks, plus FA-45 or maybe longer-ranged equivalents at the most easily CA'd points.

 

Okay, I lie. Wing-slung Whispers and Rippers would be really cool.

 

What UCOR makes this thing, anyway?

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Trouble is though Frank it doesn't carry a reasonable size force, it carries 2 sections, or maybe 4 sections of vehicles. Either way not a company and that is what the union is about. So to drop in a company you need 3 of these and that is plenty of firepower for clearing the LZ.

 

Whsipers and Rippers are cool, and would be added depending on mission expectations.

 

Points, does it really matter, this is a scenario piece. As long as someone is designing a scenario round it, it doesn't really need points. I mean is anyone planning to use this for a pick-up game ?

 

Stuart

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So I've got a searchlight under the chin, FA-45s fore and aft of the bays on goth sides, and I've got ten Regent IF packs I was pondering. I think I want to put three rows of two of them on top of the neck, but that might be overpowering in game-play.

 

My conception of this thing, since it really is all engine, except for cockpit and bay, is that it tries to clear the LZ as it lands, but mainly is concerned with landing, defending itself long enough to drop off or pick up, then getting airborne again in 20 seconds or less.

 

So.

 

15DTs, ARM3, ECM/TL 3, ACA 0, DCA +8.

2x FA-45 , LDF R 180

2x FA-45 , LDF L 180

 

That much is fairly concrete. This is what I am still pondering and would appreciate input on:

2x front ship-to-Ship guns, rng 36-40, +8 or +7/+2, limited to firing at targets straight ahead of the cockpit.

6x Regent-style IFMs, mounted on the spine. I'm not sure how many to mount, somewhere between 2-10.

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