A question to sculptors from a dreamer

[HardDRollins]

I have a feeling that this may have been discussed at some point if so sorry.

I would like to get into making my own greens and don’t know where to start, One of my rules for life is to look to people that have already done what you would like to do, how did they get to where they are and how can I get there.

 

So I would like to put forward the questions

what did you start with making?

knowing what you know now what would have you done different?

[TaleSpinner]

Well, I'm still pretty new myself. I started with my Beholder/Eye Beast. You can find it in this section. I've completed 6 sculpts in the last year and am having a blast. Ask a lot of questions. There are great people with great answers. I'd also suggest getting and watching James Von Schaick's tutorial from Miniature Mentor. I had many, many Ah Ha moments watching that.

 

Andy

[HardDRollins]

I have a feeling you are being modest Andy, saying you are pretty new at this after looking at your Beholder/Eye Beast after all at this point I cannot even sculpted a ball Lol it ends up flat on one side with finger prints all over (Maybe I have come up with a new monster but don’t think it will catch on).

 

I will have to save up some coin for the tutorial and thanks for the recommendation. At art school I did ceramics most of my work was sculpting but much larger and clay is more forgiving, the biggest trouble I am having is where do I start. I don’t get to play games so I don’t make conversions on figures or real need for any other then the fun of painting it.

[evhorne969]

...clay is more forgiving, the biggest trouble I am having is where do I start. I don’t get to play games so I don’t make conversions on figures or real need for any other then the fun of painting it.

 

For my first sculpt, I made a copy of a succubus Bob Ridolfi had done. I think it took about two months to finish. For the next few figures I went online and found concept art I wanted to sculpt. At the time I had two goals. I wanted to learn to sculpt miniatures and I wanted to sculpt enough of them to put together a portfolio to find work professionally.

 

You learn by doing. Find something that insipires you and just sculpt it. If you like Barbarians, sculpt a Barbarian. If you like Superheroes, sculpt a Superhero. You like Monsters or Aliens or Pin-up Girls, then sculpt one of those. It really doesn't matter what the subject is just so long as you're sculpting, that's all that counts.

 

Gene

[Rastl]

I'm intrigued by trying my hand at sculpting as well.

 

Gene - at RCon you were using Fimo as a sculpting material. I was very curious as to how the mechanics of that worked since it doesn't air-dry and is kind of known for losing fine details when you bake it.

 

Would you mind giving a quick description of how you use it?

[evhorne969]

I'm intrigued by trying my hand at sculpting as well.

 

Gene - at RCon you were using Fimo as a sculpting material. I was very curious as to how the mechanics of that worked since it doesn't air-dry and is kind of known for losing fine details when you bake it.

 

Would you mind giving a quick description of how you use it?

You're correct that Fimo doesn't air dry and you have to bake it to cure it, but it won't lose detail when you do so. OTOH, Greenstuff will lose detail when you heat it.

 

As for how I use Fimo, I start with a wire armature and cover it with a very thin layer of greenstuff. Then while the greenstuff is still wet I cover the entire thing in a layer of Fimo. I do this because Fimo won't stick to the wire by itself. I let the greenstuff cure overnight so the Fimo will adhere firmly to the armature. From there I employ traditional clay sculpting methods to finish the figure. Really it goes back to what I said before. You learn by doing, and the best way to do so is to jump right in. Then when you run into specific problems or issues you ask for help like Andy suggested.

 

Gene

[brassbaboon]

@hardDRollins - I've done quite a bit of sculpting, but I've taken a much more practical approach to the process. I did not expect to be able to sculpt Reaper level quality figures on my first try, so I set my expectations to be much more achievable while being much more practical and useful to my own needs. I decided that my initial goal would be to produce usable, recognizable miniatures for my own campaign. I needed a kobold army, so I got some sculpey clay and some acrylic paints and I spent an afternoon making a dozen or so kobold miniatures. I didn't even TRY to make them professional quality. Instead I focused on what miniatures I needed to create the kobold party the adventurers would encounter. So I ended up making some crossbow-wielding kobolds, some sword-wielding kobolds, a couple spear-wielding kobolds and finally a sorcerer kobold. I didn't even sculpt eyes on the faces, and made no effort whatsoever to sculpt fingers, toes, claws... I just made them as close to the right size as possible, with recognizable weapons and then painted them all the same colors.

 

They were a huge hit. My gaming group LOVED them. One of my players begged me to make a otyugh for him.

 

I needed some soldiers, villagers, and some dead bodies for the next session so I did pretty much the same thing. And again the play group loved them.

 

Remember, these were very crude first efforts. On the villagers and soldiers I at least PAINTED some eyes on the faces, but made no effort to SCULPT them.

 

Later in that campaign I needed a goblin lair set, so I did the same thing for goblins. However, by this time I had gained some confidence and decided to try to put some detail and personality in the sculpts. They took a lot longer, but they ended up looking more interesting and a couple of them (especially a pot-bellied goblin caster) actually came out pretty nice. And again the gaming group was suitably impressed, with the request for an otyugh restated.

 

So I decided to actually attempt to "sculpt" an otyugh. And I did. The player who asked for that otyugh still has it (some five years later) in his collection and loves to spring it on his players. That was the first real "effort" I made to "sculpt" a miniature.

 

Then I decided to sculpt my currently active player characters. That was fun too, and I still use those sculpts years later.

 

All of this was still using sculpey clay. Sculpey is cheap, forgiving and you don't have to worry about it hardening before you are done. Of course it has loads of limitations as well, and I rarely use sculpey any more. I use a variety of epoxy putties for my sculpting now.

 

Since then I've sculpted dozens of figures, some of which are just knock-offs needed for a campaign, others are efforts to be "professional quality." But in general I sculpt what I need.

 

I still am a long way away from being able to produce pro level miniature sculpts, but what I have done with my sculpts has been to vastly increase the flexibility of my miniature collection, tailor my collection to exactly what I need (I sculpted a factions worth of Yuan-Ti over a weekend), and gain constant sincere positive feedback from my gaming group on my efforts, with frequent requests for me to sculpt or paint things for them.

 

In the past six months I've spent a great deal of time "frankensteining" creatures, where I take existing cheap toy miniatures (horses, bugs, dinosaurs, lizards, spiders, etc) and have used epoxy putty to mix and match parts and sculpt a bit to create centaurs, were-beasts, pegasi, dragons, driders.... the sky is really the limit.

 

Not sure if this helps. The main message is "start with something practical that you can use right now."

[Dr.Bedlam]

It really doesn't matter what the subject is just so long as you're sculpting, that's all that counts.

 

Gene

 

Odd to hear you put it that way. I've given the exact same advice for writing.

[evhorne969]

Odd to hear you put it that way. I've given the exact same advice for writing.

 

Something Bobby Jackson once told me that's always struck a chord. "Imitate, Emulate, and Innovate." He said whenever you start a new creative endevor (sculpting, painting, writing, whatever) you don't know a whole lot about anything so you find others that do and you Imitate them. You imitate the tools and materials they use, you imitate their methods and subject matter, and you imitate everything they have done in order to learn what you're doing. Once you've done that for a while you begin to gain a little confidence in your abilities. You start getting comfortable with the tools, materials, and methods you're working with. You then begin to Emulate. You start venturing out on your own creatively, while still maintaining many elements of those you've been imitating. You're now emulating their work not imitating it. The more you put your own spin on things, the more you seperate yourself from your original imitations and start developing your own unique style, that's when you begin Innovating. Creating unique works of art as well as developing new tools, materials, and methodologies to use them with. Through the process you learned what you needed to learn by standing on the shoulders of those that came before you, and you in turn, will provide new foundations for future artists to work from. "Imitate, Emulate, and Innovate"

 

It's really as simple as that. Not that you won't have a lot of work to do along the way, because you will. You just have to have the desire, patience, and tenacity to stick with it as long as it takes to get there.

 

Gene

[HardDRollins]

I am glad to see there are different approaches being represented in the replies to the question as there is always something you can take away from that sort of diversity.

 

Thankyou both Gene & Andy for mentioning the time you put into sculpts, I think that is something I will have the biggest trouble with (that is if my painting is a indicator, sometimes I get court up with how long things are taking me and feel I should be faster).

 

Also very interesting and happy to see what your goal was Gene, I don’t know that many people would start out with that level of expectation for them self “I wanted to learn to sculpt miniatures and I wanted to sculpt enough of them to put together a portfolio to find work professionally.” And if they do don’t know they would say it. To me it says a lot about you and why you are where you are now.

[TaleSpinner]

I am glad to see there are different approaches being represented in the replies to the question as there is always something you can take away from that sort of diversity.

 

Thankyou both Gene & Andy for mentioning the time you put into sculpts, I think that is something I will have the biggest trouble with (that is if my painting is a indicator, sometimes I get court up with how long things are taking me and feel I should be faster).

 

 

Don't worry about time. It will be what it will be; just enjoy the time you do spend. Weirdly though, I am now finding that I actually sculpt faster than I can paint.

[HardDRollins]

I am a chef by trade with a fine dining back ground it is about doing lots of thing very quickly and everything being perfect at the same time, I am also a single parent who does not get much time for me. As I mentioned I worked with clay a lot but you can put a burner to it if it is too wet and spray with water if it is getting to dry. By my nature I am always in a hurry, this is also why I have taken up the hobby again (after the doctor told me I need to relax) after like 20 years. Instead of relaxing I find myself pushing myself to do better Lol

[HardDRollins]

So I have been thinking and have come up with some new questions, I am going to get myself a reputation for being the pain with all the questions but I get that.

1) What the copyright rules are for miniatures?

I know that you cannot go make a mould of a mini to make more of them, but I have seen products that are sold on the fact that you can make moulds of bits (not a whole figure)so that you can do conversions with the bit you copy. Then there is as has been suggested as a place to start making your own copy of a mini, I know this would turn out to be a completely different piece but does it fall into some area of the copyright.

 

2) This follows on in that line is it ok to use some ones drawing or painting and making a mini of it without them giving permission?

This sort of thing is not something that I will most likely come across but I am an inquisitive person and would like to know if anyone knows the answer

[brassbaboon]

Hard, I don't believe it is illegal to make copies of a miniature so long as you own the original and don't sell or give away the copies.

 

I think you would be on shaky legal ground making a miniature based on someone else's artwork and selling copies of them.

 

For the purposes of learning how to sculpt I can't imagine that there would be any limit to what you could copy or use as inspiration for your work. As far as I know you only run into trouble if you try to market the results as your own work, or even if you tried to market the results as legitimate copies that you are reselling.

[evhorne969]

What brassbaboon said. The short answer is you're alright to to use other artists work for personal use, e.g. learning. Where you'll run into problems is if you start selling it and/or trying to pass it off as your own original work. That's a no no...

 

Gene