Superhippieman Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 I am currently sculpting a dwarf, my goal was 20mm, but i must have done something wrong seeing as that he is 25mm tall. Could a dwarf pass as 25mm tall or is that something that no company would probably ever cast in a 30mm scale? (i'm pleased with how he looks, he's just a bit too tall I think, am i wrong?) also, what would the proper heights be for other races, elf, orc, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stubbdog Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 my opinion is, people buy what they think looks good no matter if it is truly in scale or not. For the most part this is a fantasy based genre of models. I think really only the historical miniature based society is more of a stickler for the precise sizing. Werner's dwarves are huge compared to Tre Manor's but if I like them I buy them. I have some of both of theirs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brassbaboon Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 @Superhippieman, I needed a "road gang" crew of dwarves for my curernt campaign. I sculpted a group of five road workers using Sculpey polymer clay. I was reasonably happy with them and used them in a couple of sessions right before I went on a miniature collection expanding binge that saw me acquire or sculpt over 1,400 minis in a couple of months. Finally, almost by chance, I happened to see my road gang standing next to some commercially sculpted dwarves. They were significantly taller. But nobody ever noticed during play. Because my mini collection is made up of very old, old, recent, new, and self-sculpted critters, most of my miniature factions have significant variations in size. Some of my older orcs are no bigger than my more recent goblins, for example. My oldest humans could pass for "modern" gnomes easily. But nobody has ever complained. It all seems to work fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruunwald Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 This guy is pretty darn huge and tall for a dwarf: http://www.reapermini.com/FigureFinder#detail/14019 But he still looks great on our table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superhippieman Posted November 19, 2011 Author Share Posted November 19, 2011 this helps a ton, I'll try and remember to post pics when I'm done, I just need to finish his weapons (i hate doing weapons). He's 25mm standing straight and tall, but I feel alot better about it now. What are typical sizes for other races on the 30mm scale? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff LaMarche Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 I am currently sculpting a dwarf, my goal was 20mm, but i must have done something wrong seeing as that he is 25mm tall. Could a dwarf pass as 25mm tall or is that something that no company would probably ever cast in a 30mm scale? (i'm pleased with how he looks, he's just a bit too tall I think, am i wrong?) also, what would the proper heights be for other races, elf, orc, etc. The industry standard for heights seems to have drifted up considerably over the years. In the early days, we used 25mm figures. I don't remember exactly why 25mm was used, as it wasn't actually a standard wargaming size at the time (10mm 15mm, 30mm, 54 were IIRC), but it quickly became the standard for RPG minis. But somehow that became unofficially, and then officially 28mm, 30mm, and 32mm, and some manufacturer's 32mm humans can sometimes be as tall as 40mm (not Reapers - though they've gone "heroic" scale, they're not insane like the old Rackham Confrontation stuff). 32mm (or whatever) isn't really even a "scale", it's a guideline or an approximation. If it were a scale, it would be expressed as a ratio (e.g. 1/72 or HO). There's not even agreement as to what 32mm means - some manufacturers think it's 32mm to the eyes, others think it to the top of the head. So, would a 25mm tall dwarf be okay? Placed next to the one of Rackham's 40mm humans, he'd be quite obviously a dwarf. Placed next to an old 1980s Ral Partha 25mm human, he'd look like a stocky human with a beard. For most of Reaper's line (and most 32mm minis produced today), he'd be a tall dwarf, but probably still very obviously a dwarf. IIRC, D&D Dwarves averaged about 4 feet tall. If we consider 6 foot "average" for a male (a little tall, but makes the math easier), then an average Dwarf is roughly 2/3 the height of a human. If we're using 32mm for the human, then the typical dwarf should be just over 21 mm. A 25mm Dwarf would be 15% taller than average, which is just barely within the range of human variation, being just about at the +2 standard deviation mark under which 95% of the population falls. I think it's safe to assume demi-human heights distribute similarly to human heights on a bell curve, so 95% of people will be within about 15% of the average height. TL;DR: a 25mm dwarf in 32mm range would be tall, but within the range of "normal". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evhorne969 Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Gene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff LaMarche Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Yikes, didn't intend to come across like a "Scale Nazi", was just trying to give some useful info... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff LaMarche Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 I created a quick spreadsheet using the random height ranges from the Dungeons & Dragons 3.5 SRD (you can easily substitute other values if you like). You can take a quick look at the chart for a given scale and see what the height of a short, medium, or tall character of each race would be. Not saying anyone has to make their sculpts in this range, just thought it might be a useful tool for folks creating minis. I've exported the most common scales to a PDF doc, available here: http://www.mediafire.com/?26wr5jqodud7qcw Here is my original iWork spreadsheet if you want to plug in your own values: http://www.mediafire.com/?z46eiie1zy6fy71 And here is an Excel version of the same thing: http://www.mediafire.com/?s5pvsianbdcymib The source data from which the values are calculated is actually contained in hidden values, so if you want to change them or add new races, you'll need to unhide those columns to get at that data. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evhorne969 Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Yikes, didn't intend to come across like a "Scale Nazi", was just trying to give some useful info... Aww, now I feel bad. It wasn't directed at you Jeff, or anybody else for that matter. I was just making a joke. Gene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff LaMarche Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Aww, now I feel bad. It wasn't directed at you Jeff, or anybody else for that matter. I was just making a joke. No reason to feel bad, is funny comic. Besides, with the help you've given me over the years, you've got at least a few free passes for picking me on if you want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brassbaboon Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Scale Nazi comments aside, I have to admit to a certain level of frustration that the RPG gaming hobby has been so insanely inconsistent in what one would think to be a fairly critical aspect of the game, which is the size of the models used to represent the world and the beings/things in that world. In the battle grid itself, one inch is supposed to represent five feet. That means 25.4mm should be five feet. So let's say you are naively ignorant of the miniature size inconsistencies (as I was) and you go to a lot of trouble to build out a large building (e.g. a tavern) "to scale" (as I did) and then after finishing your masterpiece, you put your official D&D Wizards of the Coast "medium sized" miniatures (in my case soldiers, an adventuring party and some self-created furniture) and you look at it and it dawns on you that "those bastards are over EIGHT FEET TALL! WTF?!" Yeah, I admit it, I was more than a little frustrated... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superhippieman Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 I created a quick spreadsheet using the random height ranges from the Dungeons & Dragons 3.5 SRD (you can easily substitute other values if you like). You can take a quick look at the chart for a given scale and see what the height of a short, medium, or tall character of each race would be. Not saying anyone has to make their sculpts in this range, just thought it might be a useful tool for folks creating minis. I've exported the most common scales to a PDF doc, available here: http://www.mediafire.com/?26wr5jqodud7qcw Here is my original iWork spreadsheet if you want to plug in your own values: http://www.mediafire.com/?z46eiie1zy6fy71 And here is an Excel version of the same thing: http://www.mediafire.com/?s5pvsianbdcymib The source data from which the values are calculated is actually contained in hidden values, so if you want to change them or add new races, you'll need to unhide those columns to get at that data. Your charts are the most helpful things i've ever seen. I greatly thank you!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff LaMarche Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Your charts are the most helpful things i've ever seen. I greatly thank you!!! You're welcome. If anyone knows of other sources of height data for races, I'd be happy to include them. The 3.5 SRD was just the easiest source of data since it's free and available online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff LaMarche Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Okay, added the figures from the D&D Fourth Edition books & original AD&D: Numbers: http://www.mediafire.com/?32spuof60cs44vn Excel: http://www.mediafire.com/?r075ddop5rjkrcc Anyone have numbers from other games? If so, send them my way and I'll add them in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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